From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id mMFoH4UytmAlOAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 15:13:41 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id SHScGoUytmASSQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 13:13:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08EA31B820 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:13:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59626 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lo4DE-0007Bu-4W for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:13:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46276) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lo2Zu-0000IX-0p for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 07:28:59 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:47180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lo2Zi-0001x9-Bn for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 07:28:57 -0400 Received: from fews2.riseup.net (fews2-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.84]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FvVKT057vzDsyj; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 04:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1622546925; bh=AhM9+FmH29yZ8PGABv8sGJd8DsCDk3lIOriMdzQ8Ii0=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=SeDRFHpC0GFLx0u2d7yk5+nBmUDeiSILQ/jqmdhlvGOxQRxhKZZEdvDv+IAqcBeVL V65BaTH6ycAVMOdYmghIYn7AkapqTnrBXCdZXN1ZxUPeYCNVUB3mECbsVejJNfQEKb xogOJFN+/VglDHtPonKRQdBr238NydztuiuPbz7Q= X-Riseup-User-ID: 0BD3C876AE47C0B462C468A3FD88D62932800500B0A1E75688B7CF496DD50D4D Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews2.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvVKR5Myvz1xph; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 04:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <603e88c833f7160b3010a1c5bedceff4fd25491c.camel@riseup.net> Subject: Re: Idea: a meta language for (language) build systems - npm, Racket, Rust cargo From: Adriano Peluso To: Leo Prikler , Pjotr Prins Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 13:28:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2479e29942cf0420e2205c274fbf90942c9c72b8.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <20210530083847.o5ej63obqnzpwnbd@thebird.nl> <20210531174748.mhaelcqwmo7degfc@thebird.nl> <449a0cd683c9f4ebb5c60b4b25decb4536f5b1d8.camel@student.tugraz.at> <9c00c64507c3eec46bff9ef6de754c01666adbfa.camel@riseup.net> <2479e29942cf0420e2205c274fbf90942c9c72b8.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=randomlooser@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:13:27 -0400 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: randomlooser@riseup.net Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1622553221; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=bmNlwDePFgRwWIJ39J4ZvQ9ITU7MfeV3RKDdiG513PM=; b=mLIgKeoX0yIWCjCgMfqF0KCnUSEKkwHrBovUehYb8fdbUjRh1IjNAlEP/NnttsVHFZSf/C U+EfgIu15XnXxVcVpqBFAVV7xyEFW6DfQNnDx4mfOsBhkeTz5sNNLMP2Tj7Gk2xK2MYtp/ fHCGpua6854vDpmsQcggu0GIsYXiJq52y/BatefTv8TTWf9RnYxLK8agxUtai9fmGsqFha X2/Hw9JYyHoWC0Wwjbjm2j1YwQfF5fwrTYpjpISe1GcqNkEqiGDAng25QZQJHNVL/MtDK1 jJ1WjaGRBL+jFBM6T8E0rOTTM0uFlZroYkZjOD76AI6a2lpLb2WxaFrwXoQXjQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1622553221; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cQibg+u9LwGivM84vk5vC55gW1CW0fkoQUlux6fKvMnyagwf2+toc7VdFwem/YpgE5c4HN rVg4n9mUUY0L3htIoesW5WbbyBmIrtlzu/CvKLU/vRRfnSA6LM6YG/lGEHmaXz+q6Nwefv 3qPvbmMpKzANOX5faiuB662LIAZ/YuMOj8JN6S6TB3ONdPWpMA2+s3FHMLAQ2cvEB0N/EG T1pnSvIckKfQmV+JYFmSlkvDdf6lWgJvaIipciyEYomOXriJtQSnjJrS3asv36RCwnVZtV FQbR/pCLDe6GEIzQRxLEsmQ49l/kW9Xeq/q0BCNbowPnEypt4XqsrXVTrjs3nw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=SeDRFHpC; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.63 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=SeDRFHpC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 08EA31B820 X-Spam-Score: -1.63 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: tCqBUpnpZ3/Q Il giorno mar, 01/06/2021 alle 13.03 +0200, Leo Prikler ha scritto: > Am Dienstag, den 01.06.2021, 12:52 +0200 schrieb Adriano Peluso: > > Il giorno mar, 01/06/2021 alle 11.11 +0200, Leo Prikler ha scritto: > > > > The output could be a collection of .tar.gz files distributed > > > > through > > > > ipfs, bittorrent, syncthing or rsync > > > > > > > > Not necessarily packages in the way Guix intends them > > > > > > > > I understand there's already some work going on to reproduce > > > > tarballs > > > > in a format convenient to Guix (maybe with proper hashes and > > > > metadata > > > > ?) for when they get erased by distributors > > > Well, ideally Guix would have have ipfs-fetch, bittorrent-fetch > > > etc. > > > as > > > methods or fallbacks, but this doesn't solve the problem that's > > > posed > > > here.  You can't just pull the complete source closure of e.g. > > > Fractal > > > over the ether and pretend it's just one package. > > > > Probably the Fractal package will depend on some others, so it's > > gonna be a collection 🤷️ > > > > Doesn't that happen already for traditional tarballs ? > We don't stuff tarball collections into packages.  We stuff inputs > into > packages and one input equals one tarball. > > > >   We already drop all > > > vendored dependencies from tarballs, that aren't created by Rust > > > et > > > al., this does the exact opposite. > > > > I'm not sure I understand > > > > This does the opposite ? > > > > How so ? > Let's assume we form this sexp-pack and use it as input to some > package.  What happens? we wouldn't use a sexp-pack as an input to a guix package in the same way as, as you noticed, we don't feed tarballs as inputs to guix packages A Guix package doesn't depend on some tarballs. It depends on some other Guix packages In the same way, a Guix package wouldn't depend on a sexp-pack. You can think of sexp-pack as an alternative format to tarball With, maybe, some more metadata For example, a sexp-pack could contain a hash of itself and hashes of other _sexp-packs_ it depends on Similarly to how, for example, python packages on pypi express dependecies on other packages in pypi The difference is that, as far as I understand, python packages (those in pypi, not those in Guix) express dependencies in a somewhat loose way Guix packages are stricter sexp-packs could be stricter too, bringing part of the data reconciliation outside of Guix A Guix importer could recursively import sexp-packs the same way the python importer... I'm assuming that a Rust package can be built in a sane way, with dependencies properly sorted out. I know that's possible for javascript packages, I'm not sure about Rust Such a data/packages collection could be used by mainstream linux distributions too, as far as I understand 🤷️