From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AJghGcfg6WGjRgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:23:03 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id qAlbFsfg6WH6tQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:23:03 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D104DD41 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:23:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40320 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAfpe-00043T-5H for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:23:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53272) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAb2Y-0003Ye-M2 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:16:02 -0500 Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com ([188.165.51.139]:40533) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nAb2V-000719-VB for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:16:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:15:50 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail2; t=1642698954; bh=0t/1cbNverq9wTf754lr/cBBWV70ysyty9aMnj85gwY=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:From:To:Cc; b=NOktCkseRzd2s2CfblMlMYnQmyvW0ydtbefqLNM/LCGHBzI5MWOiUPLxiFQnBzIhj 2UtDrBxT8pbmfZ5j67xRin6i+kqv29A79Kzbcfk8LgiGHanZun8V8vTz+EqDegiAmR +grWQsxtPTMr8Ox5lBic+uDiqy5qPBxhbXmFGiT0vp3XdxeYnX2y/tUNPmqgkPp4Rc InVgwLB/rvqTAIRPhE4CZAwPXHWNLcVNmFsDZN5c/0NQC+CmDt/Z5/6ul1YdROvIhS QOppm2vADCF7Y4LgahJTa2Ph8lQU/gR5Bd/zHtmZfBQXkB+r0J2PVuqHhHOH5YQ4Zn V5QTRTFTA8IiQ== To: guix-devel From: Luis Felipe Subject: Accessibility: Orca screen reader doesn't work as expected Message-ID: <4fmqTTauIHiP4FqPPSfRmaB_Qw2Axa_zfdgdKhokCfbH_4YznIwN6MqsRPIWo98UYpNa20Wy2QSxfGNOt35LCPiFwLxMB19Exa9cQfGpv4U=@protonmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="------e3f804cdeb18e93755ea901a9c7d78eb010eb0bce9d33535c30cdcfd0c31a858"; charset=utf-8 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=188.165.51.139; envelope-from=luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com; helo=mail-0301.mail-europe.com X-Spam_score_int: 9 X-Spam_score: 0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.9 / 5.0 requ) AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS=2.996, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Luis Felipe Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1642717383; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=0t/1cbNverq9wTf754lr/cBBWV70ysyty9aMnj85gwY=; b=tfITbzyjBr3bDMPYHhygHoPb9513hwOSVbrCpwr3xiNosq8oGWyM49ISgWK3+YXUDcM8l7 W3Riuy4nMWwjAjB0DfaPxkgA64GjI5xd4dF0n9WDTTT+zw/cxoyY3cvcI4WTXxRVnDwQcs ngclFnPIDsMtll7HI87uxqoLtdYZ7CfRyOH7N0+MIxcCRHSrWrA9UBvaJZQtxATC4jbILS BJCPLgsOUSEJCzQah6aHlmvhTXkuiHk5UXICWNxlswiW2OrGutDJLXrlZ9YJjUMvBeNsnS xJViyOKiNZZJs2+b6tVCi1mnYSiQkRE2MJn93Pn+Kpi3O2gdYnkBM6bKbCJc/g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1642717383; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uTI6Tiqh63oZm0mlg+W45tWJxGah2Z35rpNIjK1/KDpFzDutMQlIXQWfuXT6pc1yBFjYo+ GUkS6y7vgQj6LRd9jhJ5NFmhYDVmQdaL3IA4Uh/r4zO6//QXE+kCGVz8nn2wHbZut+M4UK X5luKDZfnZkptCiXXaeVUSzxS1BCn4FK1XdNFcDsF0q1iwhr7qNZWQUPKVqOopm0pN5TDQ +9fQFfm9O/HmtWizKwyJyes43STeXgCAlnBjZbNSRaO+YZay8m5LiTl9XBb7b5Bie7ZDA0 4gQP5otVg/F8GvxzIKhdP+aASJfnOQD+stQAGzWMzBDAfZ+W/neInwMRhKC+9A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail2 header.b=NOktCkse; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail2 header.b=NOktCkse; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1D104DD41 X-Spam-Score: -8.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Wgx3DQA4mrKK This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------e3f804cdeb18e93755ea901a9c7d78eb010eb0bce9d33535c30cdcfd0c31a858 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------b954d022988c5b6f8bcb2d10a2c1d36e -----------------------b954d022988c5b6f8bcb2d10a2c1d36e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Hi, Trying to do a quick check of the accessibility of Guix's website, I found= that Orca doesn't work well (using Guix System 037c2b6 with GNOME 40.4). = One important thing that doesn't work is reading web content on any browse= r (epiphany, icecat, chromium), so could you check if you can reproduce? I= f you can, I'll report the issue to the tracker then. STEPS These steps assume you are logged into a GNOME desktop session. 1. Press Super+Alt+S (after a couple of seconds, you should hear a robotic= voice say "Screen reader activated", or something like that in your sessi= on language) 2. Start Icecat (or any other browser) 3. Go to https://guix.gnu.org/ (wait for the page to load completely) 4. Press the tab key to navigate through the links of the page EXPECTED RESULT This is what I expect from my experience with Orca on Debian 11. In step 2, you should hear the voice indicating that a window was launched= . In step 3: + when typing the address, you should hear the voice read out loud every k= ey you type. + when you hit Enter and the page loads, you should hear the voice reading= the title of the page, and give you some information about its structure = and navigation. In step 4, you should hear the voice read the text of the focused link. UNEXPECTED RESULT In step 2, I don't hear the voice indicating that a window was launched. In step 3: + when typing the address, I don't hear the voice read out loud every key = I type. + when I hit Enter and the page loads, I don't hear the voice reading the = title of the page, and it doesn't give me information about its structure = and navigation. In step 4, I don't hear the voice read the text of the focused link. =F0=9F=99=A0=F0=9F=99=A2 =C2=B7 =F0=9F=99=A0=F0=9F=99=A2 =C2=B7 =F0=9F=99=A0= =F0=9F=99=A2 =C2=B7 =F0=9F=99=A0=F0=9F=99=A2 Another important thing that doesn't work is the modifier key to command O= rca to do other things. For example, pressing Insert+Space does not start = the configuration window of the screen reader. So you can't follow many of= the instructions in Orca's manual because they depend on the modifier key= . However, Orca doesn't seem to be completely broken as you can hear the voi= ce read things sometimes. For example, if you start GNOME Help and navigat= e with tab, the voice reads out loud the links; or if you activate caret n= avigation (press F7), the voice reads out loud the lines you focus with th= e arrow keys (which is pretty much the same behavior you should expect whe= n using web browsers). I don't know how to debug this, so any help welcome. I wonder if https://issues.guix.gnu.org/28088 has anything to do with all = this... Oh, and I found some things that could be changed in the website to improv= e the experience when browsed with screen readers. I'm taking note and wil= l report the issues soon. P.S.: I couldn't help to think that even though Orca works on Debian, the = reader itself seems to have important issues. The robotic voice is not ver= y clear, reading gets delayed for some reason, then the list of things to = read accumulate and the voice starts reading old things out of context. Th= e reader can't detect the language of the text it is reading and so it can= 't read multilingual content. I don't understand how blind people use libr= e systems. = Screen readers seem like really awesome projects to work on, I wonder why = they are not more advanced... --- Luis Felipe L=C3=B3pez Acevedo https://luis-felipe.gitlab.io/ -----------------------b954d022988c5b6f8bcb2d10a2c1d36e Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; filename="publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc"; name="publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc"; name="publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBPcGVuUEdQLmpz IHY0LjEwLjEwDQpDb21tZW50OiBodHRwczovL29wZW5wZ3Bqcy5vcmcNCg0KeHNCTkJGOFpwVWdC Q0FETGpoMnVtMkpkbDlCUUtrZ01TZ25ISitzSGg3S3ovdlA5c3dxN0hZTEVuRmc2DQpIQjRLa3Vv V0lxTXlFSnJOYzRrNVJQSGJ4azlxQTB6a0Exd0E4eHYzakErMlVsaVFra1pSMCs0cjlLK3gNCmZZ RGx4ZHd2Sk1VRVJaUk5kb3QvZnFCaGtTYmhpVElTU3pvRUs2ZjNreHdiN3NyME9jSkx2aU5wQ0tv aw0KWVo1Rnc0UXp3Q0Y5V1hja0VmOXNFeGNGYzZDTkdLL0pCVlZaZlZocVZNa3hqUU42YnF1WW56 a3E4WVNoDQo5Z1lTOVgxdmxiZFJBeWVLUmFxNHVqSXV0aVM2djAybDRSRTZ1RjVqaXI4eC9UeDc3 NEZualBCNmdDdWwNCk5TeDZCZmhVTndZeWJ5UFB4SVhYOUpPNHZrT3ZXNE9NZVdjcW1BK1VnQ3c5 Vmk5dnJDN3lISlRGQUJFQg0KQUFITlBXeDFhWE11Wm1Wc2FYQmxMbXhoUUhCeWIzUnZibTFoYVd3 dVkyOXRJRHhzZFdsekxtWmxiR2x3DQpaUzVzWVVCd2NtOTBiMjV0WVdsc0xtTnZiVDdDd0hZRUVB RUlBQ0FGQWw4WnBVZ0dDd2tIQ0FNQ0JCVUkNCkNnSUVGZ0lCQUFJWkFRSWJBd0llQVFBS0NSQTU0 TWRqZWpuR3FWVWFCLzk3UC9WSEtwK0FiRWJMemVkNg0KUEloSHI2NGQ4ek5PN21ibG5Gd056NDlo azdKbVJZTDV2UDJWL21DMDNXSUpmU2ppdllHU2lIbkxSZURFDQpubG1VQ01mM20rMU45OGVBaXFI TkVnNmVpaTMyYXFWUWJheHYveis1OVJHZUtIMkFsdGFkcHNUQWdLVXMNCjFrL2Z0ZEJXVlplYitC QXJHYWlsREU3OHVlYiszWE15Z3ZDV2oyMWZleS81VXZiakhxUjlMNEpZVGlTbQ0Kd1l6N0hmWm8r REU3WUlzY3ptVmVoOE0xVnpDbC8xaWFoazlVRUxqQVAvalArcnVNVDlxRVd1ajJRbGxBDQpNZVBH UnpRYnFpRGhWUzhMRmRqQkhOb0tMeHlobmJERUZqSEYvNHhOcThqbFFMZkdKWjVoS2V0dForYlUN ClNXYUVYRjNoano5V1dVOGE1Sy8yTS9Ib3pzQk5CRjhacFVnQkNBREtVblJJOXl6NFJ2TnV2U09J RmxKdg0Ka2ZvSGVaci9CTGNTR1ZjU0JreDVsc0tkVnpNeDkrVWFhZUtqV3BJTyt4ZkVOc3o3YitC Vm9CTDBXcnY5DQo0aGx3V21HNXEwQWRFeVUxL2ZRc1JSN201TzFlYTZVVDNmdVVnMVZzakZaK1Iz alN5bEF0eXpJWk0wTFUNCmJXNUY2NzNLNEF1U2NGcE44TkxHVGdScjBXUWwvQm5Id2gyWFExeHFo YzZHQk92d2l3VkJqYWY1MFNIRQ0KVGlVUHBlM0pqUXl5QlpwKzhGS20rc25ScUNHWG4wSkc4bzBG WHk5V2N4dHZmUUZNTUpwOUJPMnl0Z3hIDQp6UUlwWWNKcEpadWNjbkZvcXFIOWorMXFYWE5TYTMv cU8zenU5bFN2WFR4eDZrZGgwRldUbllDeDhNZjgNCkJZL1BXL2JCT095aExDb1RrSHFsQUJFQkFB SEN3RjhFR0FFSUFBa0ZBbDhacFVnQ0d3d0FDZ2tRT2VESA0KWTNvNXhxa2VLUWYrSk1sY2JSbHdl aC9GQTFudzh6RkN4YUY1OFBOREVPOGxIOTIveHR6bndHZEF1bHpUDQpoWjQwakdURWlweWdzbnFI VjdXSFVmNDRuZVhuMkExY3ZDWis3M0tjcGFRTmg5TXA4eVduR0taWVVHa0cNCjZPZjFoRVU3OTJY WkV4a3lBODJQZ0xCTlkrVnpOWFhLQ0g3Tlh4WlFRV1Y1blhjYlVGQ1p5Slp1ZFNnUQ0KeGsxOXNR ZjRzOXZKWDZQQzY4cXdpN2FKMTduVmZyYmNNYXlScG0yT0dKWGQrdDkxVi9Mbk5wQ1JndGwzDQpq TllzQ0JGS0RDMFl4ZEEvTkNkRWsxZ2Z1akZ6bDBiQnM3KzVKYmQzelJhRTVBZmRWUXRJbG1FWERr VzYNCjB1eUVpM050Y3E1b2RYQTFubFIrZTA0NEtGdmVaekZ1Tk5lVGdzekFCcjVIaVU3MC9FbHlz dz09DQo9ejZlNw0KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFBVQkxJQyBLRVkgQkxPQ0stLS0tLQ0K -----------------------b954d022988c5b6f8bcb2d10a2c1d36e-- --------e3f804cdeb18e93755ea901a9c7d78eb010eb0bce9d33535c30cdcfd0c31a858 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wsBzBAEBCAAGBQJh6ZixACEJEDngx2N6OcapFiEEEt4VmH0cRaQ093DvOeDH Y3o5xqnKEQgAv3wzTh4UesGaRr5P6+e8AeyJH3c8qZPKWRpzV2gI7zF7m95N nTpCCpwdpuMTJgTFrWPopbFLa0aZfCudFnSpANPT/toX9OOfklLdTnkfQpC1 THf3bRG98j7tcKKBEJl7Cy7/M1IzoDUATkzS5wOUMgrNjVnLk8CoXknz8uPF mp1Dsu/3Jr+x7TZXCCFFFBzFm/nI1NWeY8Cmds3YJJC5D+SFQh4XjoxoXSk8 6q7TCmPsvGSIhwKIss1uO4DWL5l9CAjPYptsEewjsxePz3mvtAB3n5fcUgfT 9nyRp7ao2C2cvGXWIz4WlTzehvF0A6C958P+rDifyr27fmE/EIAfzg== =2zAh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------e3f804cdeb18e93755ea901a9c7d78eb010eb0bce9d33535c30cdcfd0c31a858--