From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id GJZtL61MNGKpBAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:11:09 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6PAJLK1MNGIZdAEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:11:09 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EF3AF705 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:11:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51466 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV8dY-0004Vt-DI for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 05:11:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54268) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV8dD-0004Vg-Ew for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 05:10:47 -0400 Received: from [2a00:1c20:4089:126c:300f:e2a1:9840:5351] (port=48492 helo=outgoing.fripost.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV8dB-0000o0-Ka for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 05:10:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A90724FDCD8; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:10:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fripost.org; h= message-id:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:subject:subject :from:from:date:date:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:mime-version; s=8f00fb94ec6c37aacb48bd43e073f9b7; t=1647594636; x=1649409037; bh=Prpw5+vea9SVqRs6n0atqeqcU6RVP3qN 5Q4OspUY1as=; b=JUI4grqXlhvE188iJsbuz/vSFiVZPwejIuZOy6hy5UvVXkAn S9/MUlCTrTV8Dk3l/P1+Jkds7MZUc8I6eMOUDvMO8iP1pD4VuNc/qumc5fPkDLNU Jt4gwfXCLOO4Q5hnBSixFP8FvBzcxIJ7doC+Ss/BiUYpQahzRfOA786FrEKgb036 fw4ZO7u64YIf09f9qAn0QiBMCBG+GS7h8ylphMv63FyjDSwmJJMEsPZAt1+gAnG3 FwE4IOmPd7I57nxskpC2Wl98DBt+ir0WsFwwgs1ALgs/bLn4usYNlFC34nFNzmZ6 AJfiMluqU0ZZ/M/sFlzd2IcPCxsHqkkSDDFysg== X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at fripost.org Received: from outgoing.fripost.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (giraff.fripost.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10040) with LMTP id m0r4McB9KFfs; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:10:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.fripost.org (unknown [172.16.0.6]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB79624FDCD3; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:10:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.fripost.org (unknown [172.16.0.4]) by smtp.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B78C6862FAD8; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:10:29 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:10:29 +0100 From: Oliver Propst To: Pjotr Prins Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works In-Reply-To: <20220318062745.ducadhbbc55qlgid@thebird.nl> References: <20220314202659.oftyvymu7tjiycba@thebird.nl> <87v8wcs5vh.fsf@gmail.com> <20220318062745.ducadhbbc55qlgid@thebird.nl> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.13 Message-ID: <4b7bee562743cebde9a7f043d009159c@fripost.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1c20:4089:126c:300f:e2a1:9840:5351 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1c20:4089:126c:300f:e2a1:9840:5351; envelope-from=oliver.propst@fripost.org; helo=outgoing.fripost.org X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel , Katherine Cox-Buday Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647594669; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=k6CiHYLNhwhlCMwzCKgfJS60UNr9o3letPpdzO4BnnI=; b=YszOiKWJ2QAUFVQa3MbS/bgruGzMl76gFc+jC8QwuGbpeohtoMb1opnsMu99lxuoSpZK9x jrmFpUCAGR1ym98RHj43jG9L8/+UUmdZBPeS9tnSKvQ+fhGUH9W22uNvlQwj7xTudxUpia kQi+2o9etCTvV6RbCtkbk7B05UK30JDs+V4fCv2h0HadHRPvwLf+BqgUpBFdSVTX8C+fHQ 6ZvsoT5ousRLDkLNU1SCs8+djP7m3N8m+Xwl/AUVbG+tC/zWtJR4PzkTugTHc3v0jQ5bae l2FwfVXpzoAeqsaRaDD/wvt6YadIXsw3GReJjUK+3tp49RIyRnQJEpGl1Aeylg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647594669; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=rceYtBqUVxPjFpMcFFUzoMDbr6rS5h5u5eaArOHM2qq0rne+BFSeEj3dukH+AEE7d85fqO 3wbsq3jtgZ4u5+gEJ7muKOGrmzHitOBmAetiZyccKHRmSKDN43WbRadrs+KNevccek7+6+ hGc8VVp4lZgXVTMyV+iBjHuW2ZwP4GoAwQfRJHYd3O86dNq9MHwa91TPdc0b/fG3S/zIBl vPV0aUXlHjX6q3XEBermIsYTYVGe++u1Ir8znI5viWTMCp9OSMtPIzB9hFfDjYgR4gExQL pJ7qEO424FPaKrj5Om39rb1xaZXRhig2iKszD62RkVEtCyhkSFboROGo1wk8eQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=fripost.org header.s=8f00fb94ec6c37aacb48bd43e073f9b7 header.b=JUI4grqX; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fripost.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=fripost.org header.s=8f00fb94ec6c37aacb48bd43e073f9b7 header.b=JUI4grqX; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fripost.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6EF3AF705 X-Spam-Score: -4.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: jd9bizcnr39L On 2022-03-18 07:27, Pjotr Prins wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 03:04:18PM -0500, Katherine Cox-Buday wrote: >> In addition, because free software is largely developed in people's >> spare time, they're going to use whatever tools make them most >> productive or even just happy. They're probably not thinking about >> their software against the backdrop of the larger software ecosystem. > > Agree. Though I would not underestimate these people involved in > creating such ecosystems. Often they are not even on Linux. When the > Dlang people created dub I pointed them to Guix. Obviously I failed to > convince them. > >> Guix solves a lot of issues, and is wonderful to use, but I don't >> think it solves the most difficult issues: human issues :) > > It is a complex world out there if you look at the mix of operating > systems and compilers/interpreters. From my point of view GNU Guix > greatly simplies development and deployment - targeting Linux - at the > cost of some up-front investment. It is nice when people realise that > so much complexity goes away living in a Guix world. Very interesting notes. And well don' think there is an understatement what so-ever that I basically agree with points here :) *I mean just was stated during the Guix online days a few weeks ago I think its "simplicity" that makes Guix such interesting and attractive project. And something which in turn I guess makes us motivated to contribute and further spread the knowledge about the power of Guix (and free software in general for that matter). -- Kinds regards Oliver Propst https://twitter.com/Opropst