Re: Leaving the GNU Guix community

["Léo Le Bouter" <lle-bout@zaclys.net>]

Hello Tobias,

On Sat, 2021-05-01 at 04:34 +0200, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
> Léo,
> 
> Leo Le Bouter 写道：
> > I feel like what has happened is really a disaster,
> 
> I'm relieved that we share, at least, this.  I think everyone 
> does.
> 
> > I don't feel like contributing to GNU Guix anymore in the 
> > future.
> 
> That's a great pity.  I hope to welcome you back some day.  Guix 
> is better off with your fixes.
> 
> Yet I'm convinced that the decision to suspend commit access was 
> the right one.  It wasn't easy.  Nobody was happy about it.
> 
> I also hope that you can accept your role in the events that lead 
> to it and learn from them and make adjustments.
> 
> I'm disappointed that you still deflect the brunt of the 
> responsibility to others and refuse to acknowledge that this, 
> itself, is a problem.  Saving face consistently took precedence 
> over accepting feedback.  That's a dangerous blind spot to have.
> 

I do not think that is true, I think that I do not feel welcome to
acknowledge criticism when it is not written in a friendly manner
(because it generates confrontation), and also I can disagree with
criticism. I think I have acknowledged lots of criticism over the
course of contributing to GNU Guix and this is not taken into account
AT ALL, and that you think that this decision was right I think further
re-inforces that I will not be contributing to GNU Guix in the future.
You failed to recognize the effect of the tone in the messages, and how
deeply it affects me and my ability to feel happy and also to be
constructive (which includes responding in a useful way to criticism).
I don't feel that I can change that. I can only survive in environments
where discussion is exceptionally caring and friendly for this very
reason. I feel deeply affected by everything that's said by people,
even through Internet messages.

I think it is a disaster that you (maintainers) choose to blame someone
publicly for feeling so bad after having received messages of
exceptional aggressivity. I think it is not fair and not justified.
That you insist for me to reply to some aggressive message, I think
that is a disaster. I think it is an horrible thing to ask to someone.

> > I think that the GNU
> > Guix maintainers justify unacceptable behavior and have acted 
> > upon
> > things without understanding them, not understanding why 
> > incidents have
> > happened
> 
> We have a much better understanding of the *complete* situation 
> than you imply.  It's far too common and too convenient to claim 
> that people you don't agree with are (at best) uninformed.

I don't think I am doing any of that and it's hurtful you say I am. I
am not. I really do think that we do not understand each other, on an
emotional level.

> 
> We've certainly made mistakes over the years.  Being buggy humans 
> we'll be sure to make more.
> 
> Several contributors expressed (in at least one case: severe) 
> unease with your attitude long before Mark sent his own unpleasant 
> message, and I think we did too little and waited too long to 
> publicly address either in a coordinated manner.  Lesson 
> hard-learnt.

I think that there's been disagreements and that it's been difficult to
handle for both me and other people. I think people must acknowledge
that I can have my own way of contributing to GNU Guix that can really
make sense and that I am not bound to listen to anyone's criticism if
it doesnt make sense to me and that I cannot or am not willing to do
the work to adapt my contributions to said criticism. If you are
talking about the Zimoun case, as unfortunate as it is that they went
away, I don't think it can be blamed solely on me. They also wanted to
go. What I expressed earlier about their postings remains true for me.
I felt harassed by their postings and that's the reason it also went
off the rails. I think that there's a difference in treatment between
people that contribute to GNU Guix, that not all contributors to GNU
Guix are considered equal, that I have been the subject of criticism
but that some other contributors to GNU Guix will not be the subject of
criticism for various other reasons. I feel like I should be treated
like a person with their own opinions and preferences when it comes to
contributing and that the way I choose to do the contributions as long
as I am the one making them should be respected and that if there's
criticism it is welcome but that if I do not agree with such criticism
that my disagreement be respected. As comparison, I rarely go and
criticize other's work, I trust people to do the best. I know everyone
goes and checks if their own contributions work great from time to
time, but for that to happen you must give the authors that time. I am
able to and I know everyone is able to self-criticize their work and
adapt also. You just have to give trust. I have not heard many people
criticize code quality or anything else when it is maintainers like
Mathieu or Ludovic that broke stuff. I think it is normal to break
stuff. In general, I am not interested to fit in or become someone else
because of people's criticism, I am interested to be accepted as the
person that I already am and want to be. Some times criticism crosses
that border in that it expects me to contribute like the person who
criticizes wants, and some times I purposefully do not want to
contribute like that. I think it's also the reason I come to GNU Guix
and not some employer, I am not interested in responding to someone
else's interests if they do not make sense to me.

> 
> > that many people have spread misinformation that other believed 
> > also. 
> 
> I refuse to credit this vague insinuation.  My mind was made up by 
> nothing but your own posts to this list and your blunt refusal to 
> answer questions.

I think we still do not understand each other, and that I cannot
possibly explain it or express it through text messages, I think it is
even more of a disaster that you again insist I should be replying to
anyone who's being aggressive. 

> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> T G-R
> 
> PS: I wanted to keep this short, but thank you for sharing your 
> thoughts or Free software development.  I read them with interest.

With a lot of disappointment and pain,
Léo