From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4789::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id YPtpMDGdAGVQXAAAG6o9tA:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:17:37 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4789::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id YPtpMDGdAGVQXAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:17:37 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB9DD43704 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 18:19:08 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1694535548; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=3corpLG0bNmLo7YBAr0YEpTRMV2GXTYG/056UVrt5W8=; b=SjLBLMgKr7OSw236wznURdNYqF+TQ4Td3Kiwoe8zWGf501la/QmqF7OgrVJ05Ep8mhpY8t 4jhRen/8e3bYCy/U6oRS/S/zHGNxEj+KJKvATsUovDXeds2VWNyR2h+u9Z0SysC+yQNGld zd1g+jUbmT4nGP/sEB3BRPoPNAcqTEPnVHiRfPYknhN4xYePUkGQKpeOW+y9BF5f30hHCx Q6jUId6gzdmRoGk9Vs5e4QilyO8wQU4ff8o/TfTI905aZW2/wENvFHOzI3Nc+Q4FVqXQfo EVZ3YHRn43jPTUco35EdWnwyOeVH/CEZBnTw+KVyehk3eidR0E5m8qZEKfeD2w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1694535548; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fjXzINsUVOXk+oOYf8qjvOk4NT5vD8TNHJ0ckh57EVQXkPgDGzQcyy8hEHg2Si9pG8jeX6 tBM43JnJCsjKwXeATGgC3OT/DXA79JS1DudwXGQERI8Mt6E6b98k4tVJhB1N+35dSLthun h9EsXs8yrniQG3Vd98uOw5aZZ1E/bpZn5YxIkWIduLI52p568pgkw3bvV3s64lcFpaYUgS Rl86B3OFQHyf4p3y83BPSxlOnxwqHMRW7S+D6yTxoeAkipRMUj+7KJK61uDOpCZnpJVZrV 0X6vu2xtcgWjdJHxnP50jTxbBs7ktPekG6wwokwtaojnKa/50kFsuT6iBjXZ5A== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg660-0001N1-GR; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 12:18:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg65y-0001MT-Cz for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 12:18:34 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg65v-000372-8o for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 12:18:34 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qg65t-0001jc-GT for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 18:18:29 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: guix-devel@gnu.org From: Katherine Cox-Buday Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:18:21 -0600 Message-ID: <4900edb5-a5bc-ea26-4eb3-7ad7514c4e5a@gmail.com> References: <20230827135726.y33t55w4cvq6zsvb@X-kone> <874jkift8v.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7ic65ox.fsf@elephly.net> <6f11e4376690f35593a44f77cd9c7e40f3af8c06.camel@gmail.com> <87pm2s4cop.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Cc: Maxim Cournoyer , Saku Laesvuori , Attila Lendvai , Andreas Enge , guix-devel@gnu.org Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87pm2s4cop.fsf@elephly.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=gcggd-guix-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.473, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 1.69 X-Spam-Score: 1.69 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BB9DD43704 X-TUID: Jh+3f/cpv4At On 9/8/23 2:37 PM, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > Liliana Marie Prikler writes: > >> Am Freitag, dem 08.09.2023 um 17:27 +0200 schrieb Ricardo Wurmus: >>> I have the same positive view on our faux ChangeLogs commit messages, >>> though I also would like to have them generated.  The benefit is >>> still there: I still get to *review* an effective summary of the >>> changes before pushing or sending them off for review.  But at least >>> I don’t have to write them myself. >>> >>> Now, this is no longer a problem for me because I’ve been writing so >>> many commit messages over the years (and because I no longer try to >>> adhere to some poorly specified format), but it *is* a problem for >>> people that I’ve mentored. >>> >>> etc/committer.scm and the yasnippets are supposed to alleviate some >>> of the pain, but I don’t need to think for a long time to come up >>> with a number of improvements in this area. >> Can I assume this to mean it'd take you some short time to think of >> snippets that we're currently lacking? If so, please do contribute >> them. If not, what do you mean then? > > I mean that they have plenty of defects. > > When I wrote the first few iterations of etc/committer.scm it was only > really meant and good for bulk package updates (= lots of changes across > files, all upgrades). It couldn’t (and maybe still can’t) reliably > detect added or removed package definitions. It doesn’t handle changes > to the arguments field. It’s also terribly slow because it naively > recomputes information for every hunk in the diff, reading package > definitions from the old vs the changed file after every commit. > > The update yasnippet repeatedly gets the order of lines wrong when > adding a patch to dist_patch_DATA in gnu/local.mk; it also doesn’t do > what etc/committer.scm is already able to do: detecting changes to > inputs. Configuring yasnippet is also not trivial for people who don’t > regularly use Emacs (the snippets are tied to modes set by magit). > > I think in light of these defects “Uhm, we have snippets?” isn’t a > satisfying response. Also, from my original message: I use the templates provided, but those don't cover all cases, and I've even gotten feedback in a review to change a message it created. 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[174.51.218.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h13-20020a02c4cd000000b0042b03d40279sm2967361jaj.80.2023.09.12.09.18.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Sep 2023 09:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4900edb5-a5bc-ea26-4eb3-7ad7514c4e5a@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:18:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Content-Language: en-US To: Ricardo Wurmus , Liliana Marie Prikler Cc: Maxim Cournoyer , Saku Laesvuori , Attila Lendvai , Andreas Enge , guix-devel@gnu.org Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gnu.guix.devel References: <20230827135726.y33t55w4cvq6zsvb@X-kone> <874jkift8v.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7ic65ox.fsf@elephly.net> <6f11e4376690f35593a44f77cd9c7e40f3af8c06.camel@gmail.com> <87pm2s4cop.fsf@elephly.net> From: Katherine Cox-Buday In-Reply-To: <87pm2s4cop.fsf@elephly.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a; envelope-from=cox.katherine.e@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x12a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.473, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.56 X-Spam-Score: -5.56 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 999CA46B2B X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-TUID: gIQMJCrhUobU Message-ID: <20230912161821.zcba0GLrqRRdRfEogdKF3NvrSoTJ0sH21E3EvkqClTc@z> On 9/8/23 2:37 PM, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > Liliana Marie Prikler writes: > >> Am Freitag, dem 08.09.2023 um 17:27 +0200 schrieb Ricardo Wurmus: >>> I have the same positive view on our faux ChangeLogs commit messages, >>> though I also would like to have them generated.  The benefit is >>> still there: I still get to *review* an effective summary of the >>> changes before pushing or sending them off for review.  But at least >>> I don’t have to write them myself. >>> >>> Now, this is no longer a problem for me because I’ve been writing so >>> many commit messages over the years (and because I no longer try to >>> adhere to some poorly specified format), but it *is* a problem for >>> people that I’ve mentored. >>> >>> etc/committer.scm and the yasnippets are supposed to alleviate some >>> of the pain, but I don’t need to think for a long time to come up >>> with a number of improvements in this area. >> Can I assume this to mean it'd take you some short time to think of >> snippets that we're currently lacking? If so, please do contribute >> them. If not, what do you mean then? > > I mean that they have plenty of defects. > > When I wrote the first few iterations of etc/committer.scm it was only > really meant and good for bulk package updates (= lots of changes across > files, all upgrades). It couldn’t (and maybe still can’t) reliably > detect added or removed package definitions. It doesn’t handle changes > to the arguments field. It’s also terribly slow because it naively > recomputes information for every hunk in the diff, reading package > definitions from the old vs the changed file after every commit. > > The update yasnippet repeatedly gets the order of lines wrong when > adding a patch to dist_patch_DATA in gnu/local.mk; it also doesn’t do > what etc/committer.scm is already able to do: detecting changes to > inputs. Configuring yasnippet is also not trivial for people who don’t > regularly use Emacs (the snippets are tied to modes set by magit). > > I think in light of these defects “Uhm, we have snippets?” isn’t a > satisfying response. Also, from my original message: I use the templates provided, but those don't cover all cases, and I've even gotten feedback in a review to change a message it created.