From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Alexander Vdolainen Subject: Re: (Really) Free Software future Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 21:32:13 +0300 Message-ID: <3fe3d102-194d-8872-61ef-45337357ca4a@vapaa.xyz> References: <20191009065352.GU8197@protected.rcdrun.com> <1c9dc59c-0594-6921-73e8-b173e558b5c3@vapaa.xyz> <20191010023714.GK20430@protected.rcdrun.com> <6343757.2cZvDvYTfs@pc-713> <20191010061705.GH27628@protected.rcdrun.com> <20191010070606.GW27628@protected.rcdrun.com> <8561e1505c3d90c4deb8bdbfb1a20dced6e96066.camel@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KB0fYOyDXBthGs98pr8od3orN0Aw4tUps" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58144) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iK58p-0005Y6-1y for Guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:32:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iK58n-0002EL-OJ for Guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:32:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8561e1505c3d90c4deb8bdbfb1a20dced6e96066.camel@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: psmith@gnu.org, svante.signell@gmail.com, Richard Stallman Cc: Guix-devel , gnu-system-discuss@gnu.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --KB0fYOyDXBthGs98pr8od3orN0Aw4tUps Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Ku6jJ6HMT4N78ajpK20NUubtwtWcOJ8Hs" --Ku6jJ6HMT4N78ajpK20NUubtwtWcOJ8Hs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On 10/14/19 9:16 PM, Paul Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 18:52 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: >> On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:13 -0400, Paul Smith wrote: >>> On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:07 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: (skipped) > For example, no aspect of either GNOME or systemd are proprietary, > using the common meaning of the term. Also, "lock-in" usually refers > to software that prevents users from switching to an alternative; GNOME= > and systemd are certainly not lock-in. I'm afraid but I cannot agree with that. Actually with systemd design you have 'lock-in', because in some cases you need to modify a source code to support systemd (or you will face something like this - https://superuser.com/questions/1372963/how-do-i-keep-systemd-from-killin= g-my-tmux-sessions). Also, a lot of system daemons has eaten by systemd (and to make it works some forks were created like eudev). Finally, correct me if I wrong, but GNOME 3.8 and newer requires systemd to run, it's a lock-in isn't it ? >=20 > A non-commercial clause is directly opposed to the four freedoms (in > particular freedom 0). In fact a number of otherwise-could-be-free > software licenses have been deemed non-free solely for this type of > thing. Unless I misunderstand what you mean by "non-commercial > clause". >=20 > I don't think it's appropriate to state that software that doesn't > follow KISS can be considered non-free... how does one even measure > that? By whose definition is software not "simple"? Many people would= > suggest that GCC, glibc, Emacs, or other flagship GNU packages are not > "KISS". Similarly, there's no concrete definition of "*NIX principles"= > that one can use. Who will decide? Again many people would suggest > Emacs, with its "editor as an OS interface" construction, doesn't > follow *NIX principles. I don't see how these criteria can be used to > measure software freedoms, other than by each person individually > according to their own tastes. >=20 > As with all free software, if someone feels that some software is not > KISS (enough) or not *NIX (enough), they can avail themselves of their > four freedoms and modify that software as they like, and distribute it > to anyone else they like. >=20 >=20 >=20 --=20 Alexander Vdolainen, Evil contractor. --Ku6jJ6HMT4N78ajpK20NUubtwtWcOJ8Hs-- --KB0fYOyDXBthGs98pr8od3orN0Aw4tUps Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEvyKKe3ldp4SYtvzERPbcZkg0M1UFAl2kvy0ACgkQRPbcZkg0 M1VN6Av8CSNji5SUKDxf7Dp8gMzpGEtgX2vT1SiyJma4Y4yFvhOoq5mymB6lBj5W M5HYO5i8dwUbswIR5iCg11AZhIcqSCtWNPZEmeUETpUeYUpBPkx2xE2v5QOvFET0 JxPz6DtbXgqd9lCsgitFxUxkuKCnPLkpGorV41y2Sj9iZFVCNUng8TY1F1zeYoxB OxM8qc3ig5u6Y35JLE0NcRF3+3NCJzR3OmONAwZUOwxmPBcdJ0mPPMkCoiL8agGo 9Jd98FqskfLGv5UqaQzy2BZoJ/YZGcb3PiAkPRX0OnfDbscK70g8+4oBbmDMB6tG DQYbckWhoRB8dPI2YCXb4doGBl1pC2nXQZm6biWErPF07icZcOaQoM/g4dj0SnkC vWR7BYU21xbxRWR5r2nZftr6z8MpJLv1J0M1eeeX0/rVFJhh10PdKZxDtQUgSZIO EbP7k4ESsJuXqeuLSsyH47S0Tey4HtSph/D71BFelch49dh3Lfdi1TxCyTlq1WRu UJL6mSxL =R+Jm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KB0fYOyDXBthGs98pr8od3orN0Aw4tUps--