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[85.127.52.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f15-20020a1709067f8f00b009934855d8f1sm8039546ejr.34.2023.09.05.13.43.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 Sep 2023 13:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3b274703acaf446ec678e96c9d875c5d6b1a3e17.camel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: "(" Cc: Katherine Cox-Buday , Simon Tournier , Maxim Cournoyer , Saku Laesvuori , Attila Lendvai , Andreas Enge , guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2023 22:43:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87a5u0o3z2.fsf@disroot.org> References: <20230827135726.y33t55w4cvq6zsvb@X-kone> <874jkift8v.fsf@gmail.com> <867cp4sj7k.fsf@gmail.com> <38242808-2f06-4674-3842-aea1a5378d05@gmail.com> <87a5u0o3z2.fsf@disroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::644; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x644.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8839F45C02 X-TUID: W4eecqcOvh19 Am Dienstag, dem 05.09.2023 um 19:40 +0100 schrieb (: > Liliana Marie Prikler writes: > > Uhm, we have snippets? >=20 > Well, those are exclusive to Emacs :)=C2=A0 And without regard to /that/ > issue, I do think that there's a problem if the commit format is so > complex that it's not trivial for anyone new to the project to write > them out manually. By definition, no amount of typing is non-trivial, safe for the empty amount, which good luck trying to commit your changes by pure mouse movements, I guess? Now, if you excuse my French, I think the problem isn't really as much that people struggle to type out the perfect ChangeLog on the first try, which also makes it odd to request a linter. Bear in mind that committers will sign off anything that appears convincing enough, even if there are smaller mistakes in the message. Trust me, I've been there and seen that; and also done it myself. Instead, we have seen in this thread appeals to age, appeals to perceived lack of personal benefit, and now appeals to typing effort, none of which really make that great of an argument against the ChangeLog style, especially when they come in combination with a refusal to make use of already provided tools. I think we're starting to see the moving of the goal post as the actual game here.=C2=A0 Maybe it's time to take a step back and instead of asking =E2=80=9CHow can = we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?=E2=80=9D, we should perha= ps ask =E2=80=9CFor which contributors do we want to/can we decrease the cogni= tive overhead?=E2=80=9D We have drifted much from the original post that discus= sed moms with full-time jobs, who struggle to do =E2=80=9Cdifficult=E2=80=9D ta= sks (simplified wording; may change the meaning of the OP a little). Now, I personally struggle to see how your personal preference for communication media, commit message style, and other things that were discussed in any of the preceding threads actually correlate with being a parent. However, I do know that with its 150 million users, most people of the world don't have a Github account. Being one of the 4 billion email users out there is a comparably low barrier of entry imho. So, whose cognitive overhead do you want to reduce (besides the obvious "my own", which everyone always tries)?