Contributor covenant

Contributor covenant

[Ludovic Courtès]

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Hello Guix!

I don’t know about you, but I think this growing community here has
always been very kind, welcoming, and helpful, IOW: awesome.

In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
<http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
like it to become more than just me!).

Thanks everyone for making this project a nice place!  :-)

Ludo’.

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Re: Contributor covenant

[Andreas Enge]

On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 02:39:49PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
> like it to become more than just me!).

This sounds very reasonable to me, thanks for the initiative!

Andreas

Re: Contributor covenant

[Alex Sassmannshausen]

Andreas Enge writes:

> On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 02:39:49PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
>> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
>> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
>> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
>> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
>> like it to become more than just me!).
>
> This sounds very reasonable to me, thanks for the initiative!
>
> Andreas

Yay! +1

Alex

Re: Contributor covenant

[Eric Bavier]

On 2015-12-09 09:18, Alex Sassmannshausen wrote:
> Andreas Enge writes:
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 02:39:49PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>>> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
>>> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
>>> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming 
>>> and
>>> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The 
>>> guix-maintainers@gnu.org
>>> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though 
>>> I’d
>>> like it to become more than just me!).
>> 
>> This sounds very reasonable to me, thanks for the initiative!
> 
> Yay! +1

I agree, this should be very nice for future contributors to see.

-- 
`~Eric

Re: Contributor covenant

[Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer]

Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com> writes:

> Andreas Enge writes:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 02:39:49PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>>> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
>>> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
>>> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
>>> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
>>> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
>>> like it to become more than just me!).
>>
>> This sounds very reasonable to me, thanks for the initiative!
>>
>> Andreas
>
> Yay! +1
>
> Alex

+1 for a sane CoC. :-)

Too many Internet communities are just awful.

Taylan

Re: Contributor covenant

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> I don’t know about you, but I think this growing community here has
> always been very kind, welcoming, and helpful, IOW: awesome.

Indeed!  I’d like to say that this community is the best of any free
software project I’ve ever contributed to.  Thanks to everyone for
keeping it friendly, constructive, and welcoming!

> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
> like it to become more than just me!).

Thank your for this!

The code of conduct itself sounds good; but the sentence in the manual
is a little hard to read and a little meandering, in my opinion.

> +In the interest of welcoming everyone who thinks this is a great project
> +to contribute to---which it is, indeed!---contributors express their
> +commitment to providing a warm, friendly, and harassment-free experience
> +by agreeing to our ``Contributor Covenant'', adapted from
> +@url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}, and which can be found in the
> +@file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the source tree.
> +

I find it hard to suggest better wording, but I think there’s a lot in
this sentence and it might be better to split it up or simplify it a
little.  Maybe splitting it into two sentences would be clearer?  E.g.:

> We welcome everyone to contribute to this project.  To maintain(?) a
> warm, friendly, and harassment-free experience, contributers agree to
> our ``Contributor Covenant'' (adapted from
> @url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}), which can be found in the
> @file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the source tree.

Admittedly it doesn’t have the charms of the original version, but I
find the latter somewhat clearer.  What do you think?

~~ Ricardo

Re: Contributor covenant

[Alex Sassmannshausen]

Hello,

Ricardo Wurmus writes:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
>> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
>> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
>> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
>> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
>> like it to become more than just me!).
>
> Thank your for this!
>
> The code of conduct itself sounds good; but the sentence in the manual
> is a little hard to read and a little meandering, in my opinion.
>
>> +In the interest of welcoming everyone who thinks this is a great project
>> +to contribute to---which it is, indeed!---contributors express their
>> +commitment to providing a warm, friendly, and harassment-free experience
>> +by agreeing to our ``Contributor Covenant'', adapted from
>> +@url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}, and which can be found in the
>> +@file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the source tree.
>> +
>
> I find it hard to suggest better wording, but I think there’s a lot in
> this sentence and it might be better to split it up or simplify it a
> little.  Maybe splitting it into two sentences would be clearer?  E.g.:
>
>> We welcome everyone to contribute to this project.  To maintain(?) a
>> warm, friendly, and harassment-free experience, contributers agree to
>> our ``Contributor Covenant'' (adapted from
>> @url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}), which can be found in the
>> @file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the source tree.
>
> Admittedly it doesn’t have the charms of the original version, but I
> find the latter somewhat clearer.  What do you think?
>
> ~~ Ricardo

In an attempt to be helpful, here a further suggestion; take it or leave
it as you see fit (happy to patchify it).

>> We want to provide a warm, friendly and harassment-free environment,
>> so that anyone can contribute to the best of their abilities.  To
>> this end our project uses a ``Contributor Covenant'', which was
>> adopted from @url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}.  You can find a
>> local version version in the @file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the
>> source tree.

HTH,

Alex

Re: Contributor covenant

[Ludovic Courtès]

Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com> skribis:

> In an attempt to be helpful, here a further suggestion; take it or leave
> it as you see fit (happy to patchify it).
>
>>> We want to provide a warm, friendly and harassment-free environment,
                                       ^
+ comma

>>> so that anyone can contribute to the best of their abilities.  To
>>> this end our project uses a ``Contributor Covenant'', which was
>>> adopted from @url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}.  You can find a
      ^
adapted

>>> local version version in the @file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the
          ^^^^^^^
typo

Could you patchify it?  :-)

Thank you!

Ludo’.

Re: Contributor covenant

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com> writes:

>>> We want to provide a warm, friendly and harassment-free environment,
>>> so that anyone can contribute to the best of their abilities.  To
>>> this end our project uses a ``Contributor Covenant'', which was
>>> adopted from @url{http://contributor-covenant.org/}.  You can find a
>>> local version version in the @file{CODE-OF-CONDUCT} file in the
>>> source tree.

With Ludo’s suggestions this version seems better/clearer to me.  Thank
you!

~~ Ricardo

Re: Contributor covenant

[Mathieu Lirzin]

Hi,

ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> I don’t know about you, but I think this growing community here has
> always been very kind, welcoming, and helpful, IOW: awesome.

I could not agree more.

> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
> like it to become more than just me!).

Since Guix has (in my experience) always be a nice place, I don't think
this is necessary to have this.  As much goodwill is the intention of
this code of conduct, the ideas behind it don't make consensus in Free
Software communities which can lead into unnecessary divisions (and we
have already a lot of them).  See:

  http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918

The problem is that this code of conduct pretends to give a warranty of
an "harassment-free experience", which is is a slippery slope (Sorry to
not be able to expand more on it in english).  IMHO it would be
preferable to revert this commit, and let the necessary decisions be
taken case by case when a bad behavior among Guix contributors arise.

Thanks,

--
Mathieu Lirzin

Re: Contributor covenant

[Ludovic Courtès]

Mathieu, the goal is to tell potential contributors about what we stand
for, and to reassure members of underrepresented groups, such as women.
One could think that this is unnecessary, or that it goes without
saying.  Unfortunately, experience has shown that this doesn’t go
without saying.  See <http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/38746.html> for a
recent discussion, or <http://contributor-covenant.org/>.

I’m happy to discuss it face to face one of these days if you want!  :-)

Ludo’.

Re: Contributor covenant

[Amirouche Boubekki]

Le 2015-12-09 18:55, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> 
> The problem is that this code of conduct pretends to give a warranty of
> an "harassment-free experience", which is is a slippery slope (Sorry to
> not be able to expand more on it in english).  IMHO it would be
> preferable to revert this commit, and let the necessary decisions be
> taken case by case when a bad behavior among Guix contributors arise.
> 

I think otherwise, "Laissez faire" kind of policy is not the kind of 
policy
taken by all Free Software communities.

Being helpful and welcoming, can be frustrating because of the lack
of time. That said it's not only a noble goal, it can also be both 
rewarding
and sometimes necessary.

I think it's good move, pushing forward the community.


-- 
Amirouche ~ amz3 ~ http://www.hypermove.net

Re: Contributor covenant

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@gnu.org> writes:

> The problem is that this code of conduct pretends to give a warranty of
> an "harassment-free experience", which is is a slippery slope (Sorry to
> not be able to expand more on it in english).  IMHO it would be
> preferable to revert this commit, and let the necessary decisions be
> taken case by case when a bad behavior among Guix contributors arise.

I did not read the code of conduct as a warranty.  It is a declaration
of intent, shows that we as a project are aware of social obstacles in
contributing to free software projects and actively try to avoid and
remove them.

The code of conduct also serves as a basis for negotiating incidents,
which have not yet happened.  The very fact that a contact person is
available in these cases and a simple process to deal with incidents is
outlined might be sufficient for potential contributors (some of which
may have been burned by hostile project communities) to join us without
worries.

Given the current beautiful state of the community surrounding Guix I
don’t see any negative effects this code of conduct could possibly have.

~~ Ricardo

Re: Contributor covenant

[Efraim Flashner]

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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:13:28 +0100
Ricardo Wurmus <ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de> wrote:

> Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>  [...]  
> 
> I did not read the code of conduct as a warranty.  It is a declaration
> of intent, shows that we as a project are aware of social obstacles in
> contributing to free software projects and actively try to avoid and
> remove them.
> 
> The code of conduct also serves as a basis for negotiating incidents,
> which have not yet happened.  The very fact that a contact person is
> available in these cases and a simple process to deal with incidents is
> outlined might be sufficient for potential contributors (some of which
> may have been burned by hostile project communities) to join us without
> worries.
> 
> Given the current beautiful state of the community surrounding Guix I
> don’t see any negative effects this code of conduct could possibly have.
> 
> ~~ Ricardo
> 

this.

+1

-- 
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Re: Contributor covenant

[Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer]

Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@gnu.org> writes:

>> In commit e15fcdd, I added a ‘CODE-OF-CONDUCT’ file taken from
>> <http://contributor-covenant.org/>, which is essentially a way of
>> telling the lurkers out there: yes, we do our best to be welcoming and
>> we’re committed to doing so, so join us!  The guix-maintainers@gnu.org
>> address it mentions is currently an alias for ludo@gnu.org (though I’d
>> like it to become more than just me!).
>
> Since Guix has (in my experience) always be a nice place, I don't think
> this is necessary to have this.  As much goodwill is the intention of
> this code of conduct, the ideas behind it don't make consensus in Free
> Software communities which can lead into unnecessary divisions (and we
> have already a lot of them).  See:
>
>   http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918
>
> The problem is that this code of conduct pretends to give a warranty of
> an "harassment-free experience", which is is a slippery slope (Sorry to
> not be able to expand more on it in english).  IMHO it would be
> preferable to revert this commit, and let the necessary decisions be
> taken case by case when a bad behavior among Guix contributors arise.

ESR has some great technical contributions (most recent I know of being
moving Emacs to git), and social too (I owe him one for maintaining the
Hacker-Howto which was *the* document that initially got me into FLOSS,
Unix, etc.), but when it comes to "social justice" issues like sexism
and racism, I'm afraid his blog is not the best place to look...

Taylan


P.S.: if I were to go full-out on social ideology, I cannot recommend
Andrea Dworkin's books any more strongly.  There are free PDFs here:
<http://radfem.org/dworkin>.  /off-topic