From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id QDJdK4PFSmK+FwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:16:35 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id sPxmKIPFSmKlTQEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:16:35 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 567463A199 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2022 12:16:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58676 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nbJlC-00087U-GQ for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 06:16:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nbJk8-00086R-Jg for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 06:15:29 -0400 Received: from [2a02:1800:110:4::f00:18] (port=55170 helo=michel.telenet-ops.be) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nbJk5-0006j1-Ab for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 06:15:27 -0400 Received: from [172.20.10.5] ([188.188.236.140]) by michel.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id EaFL2700T32RwxY06aFMys; Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:15:22 +0200 Message-ID: <39f9b4cf5d120d2c314679d69a08d0e304a595d4.camel@telenet.be> Subject: Re: Excessively energy-consuming software considered malware? From: Maxime Devos To: Attila Lendvai , Hartmut Goebel Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:15:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <2067ba1e606855eace261fd0b0ae9721b369bbd5.camel@telenet.be> <70fb056bcfa1570525b9c7153de883506c51d1ce.camel@platen-software.de> <5558617e-895b-4fd0-02c4-775a94cab648@becze.org> <42f2d7aa-6c6b-370b-0536-9b69d54c1b6f@crazy-compilers.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-yJSgUPQ5P0Y716M7OYKU" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r22; t=1649067322; bh=3ZsUrig5/fEYvccfUGwG/rpjSfSNbR+X52AeQl2w9tM=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=e88ZxR15Vo4LlTlYYRhBg35tzT1XsqVaE5mcaPvmh/tXaLSBoo3ALMtg8wuWDJtR0 1TFEgdU2271NToiIhBxz/Nq5g7kHUoqJPG/V+L9MkYKNX+4C2t1wvDYM/UJiZ930LS JRATrtfNjC3PYZ++g7jvmHRjHZBKyGBuP6KtcsKLEsN41JQ5W7gSQH9YCGN3HKnGXK dNn38sFYEb/pDAfl0rB/GJ28Bf8brTimF7PqtZQKq5/FIEGYfIhJ3nYIminBq/uxWS +8HuEl0q+dhE+QSWtMP5ijUb/NI5MbYT46fxsvPpZg62QSrzbV7y8qHoBz+5LJoyIU vpPi3gKEST+aQ== X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a02:1800:110:4::f00:18 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:1800:110:4::f00:18; envelope-from=maximedevos@telenet.be; helo=michel.telenet-ops.be X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Martin Becze , guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1649067395; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=3ZsUrig5/fEYvccfUGwG/rpjSfSNbR+X52AeQl2w9tM=; b=Wf9W8A5Vj5izZZDc+C3Pkh8fj8RgsGh0o5OD/kXF071QeeAHuBRR7Srkpojpp6qcO5TqHs tNySUzqJma5Xbk5x59iFxpA3lqlEvRITtNotBHkOdprMXdl6c9Yiy4lDow7TGVV6bbtL12 QCo6Oiqs4VxoP7XuFXhm/xnokLIUEMUV9mQiq1yI6nSo+CrH5JFjRMVgwEZhRAp3nq531s kMiEdQOOmiMOFAt1kNwZWKSSX1sxeBYzkuiV9os+t3SfptyX7zSQgvDCgcBdeKobkdbVf4 s8V3xU4dV1OhU+s/XemSyZibSKtHe4IA49xOkOrzWZRfa9sVzEJFugTNY4J2/Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1649067395; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bZ8PUACXKxRtYVhP4wOrdUKx7qxKS/Mjrjx8dVQoxDZe9vKtEa/EvdsznHOeBh0L097UQj Z80oZJ14C2hQ44oT2J+3xqhlwMQRdPhsIuadRaomhHx7wzfZpX1d6//+8UobOZxvJyVQkM dAS96Uv+ipb2DEenuSdsRLnPfDl2UxpxZdbE3CNo+ZuhngDSa+RDqvy7zn8GuFI7UjDOpN MNoMSM7QZte4X8qtn5WHlGMBmKNBWIiW9kekUl9HBaitl56n/PnjIW1xvPFQX+qqnnRtZH teiT0LZihwngYFgCQGRLfVRIPwwgDs30Xc+20U2pCUz5J43EOZXGW0mLwUTOKA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=e88ZxR15; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -10.08 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=e88ZxR15; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 567463A199 X-Spam-Score: -10.08 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: hVtxarnSj13+ --=-yJSgUPQ5P0Y716M7OYKU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attila Lendvai schreef op ma 04-04-2022 om 08:00 [+0000]: > > Undermining the governments ability to raise tax also means > > undermining > > the ability to build schools, kindergartens, public libraries, > > public > > transport, streets, etc. Who is going to pay and provide all of > > this, If > > there is no democratically controlled() government? >=20 >=20 > there's plenty of past examples of financing these things without the > government collecting the necessary funds. Here's an example I know of: * Education. From what I have heard, students in the UK have to pay huge sums to be admitted to their universities. In Belgium, it's much lower (e.g. =E2=82=AC 1000 a year(*)), AFAIK it's independent of the =E2=80=98status=E2=80=99 of the university and some arrangements ar= e made for people that cannot afford the normal tarif. IIUC, the relatively low tarif is mostly thanks to government funding and the (public) universities not being for-profits. I think I prefer the government funding here above the seemingly non-existent private benefactors. (*) with some caveats, e.g. depends on the number of =E2=80=98studiepunten= =E2=80=99 (ECTS) and IIUC there if you fail too much the university can refuse to admit you or demand a higher tarif. Greetings, Maxime. --=-yJSgUPQ5P0Y716M7OYKU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYkrFJxccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7h29APwP2YN1y83uhCmpZOZl0wn1Tyfh cpDJtyrid9+aqpQxwAD/aFDKTm8cJU/EHg+XjuMi97GuBBk3387Oj2wATCFzMgA= =cLZz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-yJSgUPQ5P0Y716M7OYKU--