From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: znavko@disroot.org Subject: Re: What is the philosophy behind shepherd? Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2019 08:08:54 +0000 Message-ID: <38fe2934778e2265cbffbf8840c56b98@disroot.org> References: <87bm1in83d.fsf@gmail.com> <87o95jlyo0.fsf@gmail.com> <7ccb4af5361a225750d4c90dc78abc3e@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_RainLoop_289_903154721.1554624534" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60960) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hD2rO-0007ep-5v for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 04:09:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hD2rM-0008VR-Oz for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 04:09:02 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:33948) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hD2rL-0008Tj-Hk for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 04:09:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87bm1in83d.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Katherine Cox-Buday Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org ----=_RainLoop_289_903154721.1554624534 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kathernie, you will get more conceptions carefully reading these definiti= ons:=0Ahttps://access.redhat.com/articles/754933 (https://access.redhat.c= om/articles/754933)=0AThe systemd system and service manager is responsib= le for controlling how services are started,=0Astopped and otherwise mana= ged on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 systems. By offering on-demand service= =0Astart-up and better transactional dependency controls, systemd dramati= cally reduces start up times.=0AAs a systemd user, you can prioritize cri= tical services over less important services.=0A... More than services: In= stead of just managing services, systemd can manage several different uni= t types...=0A=0Ahttps://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd (https://www.gnu.or= g/software/shepherd)=0AThe GNU Daemon Shepherd or GNU Shepherd, formerly = known as GNU dmd, is a service manager that looks=0Aafter the herd of sys= tem services. It provides a replacement for the service-managing capabili= ties=0Aof SysV-init (or any other init) with a both powerful and beautifu= l dependency-based system with a=0Aconvenient interface.=0A=0AOf course, = 'system manager' systemd pulls the responsibility of whatever you want ev= en boot logs and more than services.=0AIn Russian forum linux.org.ru peop= le dislike it. But it is using in some FSF approved systems (f.e. trisque= l).=0A=0ADid you read LFS book? There, system is building from scratches.= That way is when you have no those strange layers with 'system managers'= .=0AApril 6, 2019 9:21 PM, "Katherine Cox-Buday" wrote:=0A znavko@disroot.org (mai= lto:znavko@disroot.org) writes:Hello, Katherine! I've tried a little syst= emd, openrc and now I am=0Ausing GuixSD with shepherd. Lot of people and = developers use systemd.=0AHere it is a link you may get info from=0Ahttp:= //without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page (http://without-systemd.or= g/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) Here some theses=0Ahttps://ihatesystemd.com (= https://ihatesystemd.com) it was interesting for me cause I am not as=0Ad= eep in init systems. =0A=0AWhile I would not characterize myself as a sys= admin, nor an init system=0Aexpert, I use systemd just about every day. I= 'm familiar with the=0Ageneralities of how it works, and why.I think need= to define criterion to get appreciation of something.=0AThink that layer= is not a criteria. Systemd works fine for some cases=0Awhen you are sysa= dmin that want to control lot of things in one=0Ageneral interface - init= system. =0A=0AI think it does more than to serve a unified interface to = sysadmins. For=0Aexample, its built-in DNS server can dynamically update = a `resolv.conf`=0Awhich some systems symlink `/etc/resolv.conf` to. This = allows systemd to=0Ahandle signals of connecting to networks or VPNs, and= update the systems=0ADNS servers dynamically. The acceptance of these ty= pes of signals and=0Athe actions they spawn are what I think make up the = "system layer" Benno=0ARice was discussing.=0A=0A--=0AKatherine ----=_RainLoop_289_903154721.1554624534 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
K= athernie, you will get more conceptions carefully reading these definitio= ns:
https://access.redhat.com/articles/7549= 33
The systemd system and service manager is responsible for contr= olling how services are started,
stopped and otherwise managed on Red = Hat Enterprise Linux 7 systems. By offering on-demand service
start-up= and better transactional dependency controls, systemd dramatically reduc= es start up times.
As a systemd user, you can prioritize critical serv= ices over less important services.
... More than services: Instead of just managing services, systemd can manage several diffe= rent unit types...

https://www.gnu.org/soft= ware/shepherd
The GNU Daemon Shepherd or GNU Shepherd, formerly kn= own as GNU dmd, is a service manager that looks
after the herd of syst= em services. It provides a replacement for the service-managing capabilit= ies
of SysV-init (or any other init) with a both powerful and beautifu= l dependency-based system with a
convenient interface.

Of cours= e, 'system manager' systemd pulls the responsibility of whatever you want= even boot logs and more than services.
In Russian forum linux.org.ru = people dislike it. But it is using in some FSF approved systems (f.e. tri= squel).

Did you read LFS book? There, system is building from scra= tches. That way is when you have no those strange layers with 'system man= agers'.


April 6, 2019 9:21 PM, "Katherine Cox-Buday" <cox.katherine.e@gmail.com> wrote:
znavko@disroot.org writes:
Hello, Katherine! I've= tried a little systemd, openrc and now I am
using GuixSD with shepher= d. Lot of people and developers use systemd.
Here it is a link you may= get info from
http://without-s= ystemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Here some theses
htt= ps://ihatesystemd.com it was interesting for me cause I am not as
= deep in init systems.


While I would not characterize= myself as a sysadmin, nor an init system
expert, I use systemd just a= bout every day. I'm familiar with the
generalities of how it works, an= d why.
I think need to define criterion to get appreciation of= something.
Think that layer is not a criteria. Systemd works fine for= some cases
when you are sysadmin that want to control lot of things i= n one
general interface - init system.


I think it= does more than to serve a unified interface to sysadmins. For
example= , its built-in DNS server can dynamically update a `resolv.conf`
which= some systems symlink `/etc/resolv.conf` to. This allows systemd to
ha= ndle signals of connecting to networks or VPNs, and update the systemsDNS servers dynamically. The acceptance of these types of signals andthe actions they spawn are what I think make up the "system layer" Benno=
Rice was discussing.

--
Katherine
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