From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id wGUtG/GmL2FT7QAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 18:14:41 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 4InPFvGmL2G+UwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 16:14:41 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05D7114978 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2021 18:14:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50636 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLSsp-0001ML-Lg for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 12:14:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLSJ6-0005B5-Ec for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:37:44 -0400 Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.21]:45951) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLSJ4-0003Ky-El for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:37:44 -0400 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179DF320028E; Wed, 1 Sep 2021 11:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap22 ([10.202.2.72]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:37:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mesmtp; bh=6l f64lqG8lUHXwk2NC2jJpwZ4tSUMb6VgyKWsP7HC4E=; b=fAKL6x3iGBVP+OXn36 CEbBgachjZpLPnuGLFltlmHlPo2NxXIDpwwAr47XFeNTGDUcHDCQteJ8z+bQEE0M n1+QOd7xCjhN3/VgG86rV6Q+ovU/wqXRs9XuBu2RTbhzkibFwLlNJVYohFctXg17 98/86Ep+Y51yMWYvdgIfZx0v8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=6lf64lqG8lUHXwk2NC2jJpwZ4tSUMb6VgyKWsP7HC 4E=; b=psbAJW5qIOCbvF86orZLydFepK77rI1vfnkzFZwUMsHF3q34iOh/yqXTX zUDrimfNYw3NBBEmYGX4iuP2rY0DtQZ1BN7Wc/bIUAw+fLGgeG7JQB+RSVnM/yjy 5Wa/2Z+6maF8NN8DFo6dSZz3HFDCukoqtHU8ze9zMJ9jntmo1qAyLCj4ukauO8D/ 5GYnP1WNRvwyy//YFzydPAEkKoM041F+Jhv/dOOYC+9f32TxcE+mEKSuV4OQ/WNs INLd88kFPQwuYVRZwXSANOcUbHbMb6Ol3vBXzakmG0OcIdskOk5PSs1uSt5hFy8V mfd4UKR0rnHM21Tf+i7IPYHH3tW/g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddruddvfedgledtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfnfgv ohcuhfgrmhhulhgrrhhifdcuoehlvghosehfrghmuhhlrghrihdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtf frrghtthgvrhhnpeefueeijeeluddvveefudfhhefhheegjeevheethfejgfejudekveeh ffejgfetvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpehlvghosehfrghmuhhlrghrihdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E393E62C0064; Wed, 1 Sep 2021 11:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-1126-g6962059b07-fm-20210901.001-g6962059b Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <2def863d-fd2e-46c3-9a4c-9c6772724d27@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87bl5clg3p.fsf@yoctocell.xyz> References: <8635qp1j6k.fsf@mgsn.dev> <87bl5clg3p.fsf@yoctocell.xyz> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:37:13 -0400 From: "Leo Famulari" To: "Xinglu Chen" , "Sarah Morgensen" , "Christopher Baines via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." Subject: Re: Can we find a better idiom for unversioned packages? Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.21; envelope-from=leo@famulari.name; helo=wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1630512881; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=6lf64lqG8lUHXwk2NC2jJpwZ4tSUMb6VgyKWsP7HC4E=; b=b1FL8SlDOZeJRxbxHWrF7MzQxKThYKMplNtLL5o8HaWwJpgNu77V73CEXXDJ6zNk7xlTyY beJZhGlzCTe17JI2Zoeul1mhqrev4y9e/yMSngdIvuPJmi7hws9gB2jHRcB09/RuSceUgD 4FhuDswik2/HqLwBmx6orDrpeFr1mhU9mlqmr1u08Y4j/RZEcqBvvLB/vKJpzX5nd81QgI H108wh7/6gfTqinLab0Tkz89ZdG0Jwt/l9unM3HHsoa9wlHPjJcFdvNw06kP0uI+ISL6zD Ixl3Cs8pOdjSDEcJUDofuwb4whFC2uEk4WV+H/E91DuRO807I5Edfv7es3Agfw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1630512881; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=sr002WoI6EA89+m3NL/4V6hbP3preb6kjwILXQk3s/Oph4EYbVTOqxrx1rtjNugYu9HMho 79T9xklauvKcnkBP8ZElIZPrYl+PIqOec04WQ/D+3nprr20dgAr+oIVllTrviIh3cCJX++ S6hqkFZOa+o8JF3F97flWzv9dz1UbblnBANDBaZTSXu1XKDZ3gx3tY/ZjYhzrrUvvHHVZR qLA8jESwBDXWh5XajciW1R1Xm+0xPSXjRtuZA30yuNdM9DPSAn/DxnV6wH9gPkOtQOKn/Y soXW+9r0GJ73mqFP07D/AGxPfrEv6DLX8n5x3SiHGLgnDP1+/zjUeHjR7Qt4Gw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=famulari.name header.s=mesmtp header.b=fAKL6x3i; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=psbAJW5q; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.61 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=famulari.name header.s=mesmtp header.b=fAKL6x3i; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=psbAJW5q; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 05D7114978 X-Spam-Score: -0.61 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: HADKasi/9JQx On Wed, Sep 1, 2021, at 06:55, Xinglu Chen wrote: > I never felt like including the commit id in the version of a package > was useful; e.g., just seeing the first seven characters of the commit > id doesn=E2=80=99t really tell me anything about the version. I think= it is > more useful to put the date of the commit in the version; Nixpkgs does > something like this[1]. I have started to put the date of the commit = in > a comment, just to make it easier for people to know how old it commit > is; otherwise, one would have to find the VCS repo and find the commit > just to see how old the commit is. The issue I see with only using the date is that Git dates are not uniqu= e, in order, or even meaningful in a clear way. Commit dates don't have a consistent meaning: are they the time of first= revision of a commit? Final revision of a commit? Time of signing? Push= ing? They are often useful to estimate a timeline, but it's common for a= Git "timeline" to jump back and forth by months or a year due to long-r= unning development branches being merged in, or due to a "commit and the= n polish by rebasing" workflow. Using the revision ID (of sufficient length) gives an unambiguous refere= nce to the upstream source of a package and its artifacts in the store. = How would you describe a package version to upstream when reporting a bu= g, except by revision ID? You can't tell them a timestamp and expect the= m to know which code a buggy package is based on. We could certainly add a timestamp to our version strings for VCS-based = packages, but we should keep the revision ID too.