From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: swedebugia Subject: Improving the README and new user experience Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:46:25 +0200 Message-ID: <2BB0BF83-FB79-4D6D-AE22-9E8D6B095C75@riseup.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----7NNPHNFOE1P8F9K7RRAEDYOIUJPB4K" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58830) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVV0t-0007BR-SS for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:46:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVV0q-0003vH-PS for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:46:35 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:53313) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVV0q-0003vB-ER for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:46:32 -0400 Received: from cotinga.riseup.net (cotinga-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ED631A09C9 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cotinga.riseup.net with ESMTPSA id 490CDC75EC for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:46:29 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Guix-devel ------7NNPHNFOE1P8F9K7RRAEDYOIUJPB4K Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I would like to propose a rewrite of the README=2E I'm wondering if it would be best to split it up in 2 files=2E=20 One for guix and one for guixsd=2E=20 I would like to help new users understand more about GuixSD before they ru= n it (and inevitably into errors)=20 Users come from other Distros where tough package manager errors mostly me= an: you are screwed, reinstall=2E Because if you loose the central command = to manipulate the system - how can you possibly recover? Imagine apt being = corrupt or gone missing=2E=20 So when we have strong reactions to users used to being screwed and reinst= all then we need to educate them that this is something completely differen= t where it is actually hard to break (besides when running guix pull and no= t understanding how to set paths manually)=20 Another example: The current parsing of config=2Escm is eh=2E=2E=2E crude and might work fo= r seasoned programmers who know the exact differences between parameters, i= nstantiated config, where inherit works (record types) and where they don't= (service-types), what a service object is, how you remove an item from a l= ist of service objects, etc=2E=20 I would like to tell new users NOT to change the config=2Escm at first ins= tall if they are not confident schemers=2E (besides the username and timezo= ne perhaps)=2E=20 Also the editors included in the image are crap because they lack two impo= rtant features: 1) keeping track of the damn paranteses and 2) comment and = uncomment region=2E=20 Edits to the configuration is in my view best done with small incremental = steps in emacs and validating the config for each step (side note how do yo= u validate your config from within emacs?)=2E Access to irc to ask for ques= tions/help when guix sometime spews incomprehensible errors at you is also = advisable=2E We also need a lot more complete examples of working snippets and whole co= nfig=2Escms to add to a config in the lack of good error reporting=2E=20 Maybe a list of links to working configs from community members would be g= ood to add Somewhere=2E I learned a lot from reading the Config of others=2E Perhaps in a new file called GUIXSD-CONFIGURATION-EXAM= PLES?=20 I saw that some of you, Alex, sidesteps the removal of service objects-pro= blem by defining all the services yourself in a list instead=2E=20 --=20 Cheers Swedebugia ------7NNPHNFOE1P8F9K7RRAEDYOIUJPB4K Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

I would like to propose a rewrite of the README=2E

I'm wondering if it would be best to split it up in 2 files=2E

One for guix and one for guixsd=2E

I would like to help new users understand more about GuixSD before they ru= n it (and inevitably into errors)

Users come from other Distros where tough package manager errors mostly me= an: you are screwed, reinstall=2E Because if you loose the central command = to manipulate the system - how can you possibly recover? Imagine apt being = corrupt or gone missing=2E

So when we have strong reactions to users used to being screwed and reinst= all then we need to educate them that this is something completely differen= t where it is actually hard to break (besides when running guix pull and no= t understanding how to set paths manually)

Another example:
The current parsing of config=2Escm is eh=2E=2E=2E crude and might work fo= r seasoned programmers who know the exact differences between parameters, i= nstantiated config, where inherit works (record types) and where they don&#= 39;t (service-types), what a service object is, how you remove an item from= a list of service objects, etc=2E

I would like to tell new users NOT to change the config=2Escm at first ins= tall if they are not confident schemers=2E (besides the username and timezo= ne perhaps)=2E

Also the editors included in the image are crap because they lack two impo= rtant features: 1) keeping track of the damn paranteses and 2) comment and = uncomment region=2E

Edits to the configuration is in my view best done with small incremental = steps in emacs and validating the config for each step (side note how do yo= u validate your config from within emacs?)=2E Access to irc to ask for ques= tions/help when guix sometime spews incomprehensible errors at you is also = advisable=2E

We also need a lot more complete examples of working snippets and whole co= nfig=2Escms to add to a config in the lack of good error reporting=2E

Maybe a list of links to working configs from community members would be g= ood to add Somewhere=2E I learned a lot from reading the
Config of others=2E Perhaps in a new file called GUIXSD-CONFIGURATION-EXAM= PLES?

I saw that some of you, Alex, sidesteps the removal of service objects-pro= blem by defining all the services yourself in a list instead=2E

--
Cheers Swedebugia ------7NNPHNFOE1P8F9K7RRAEDYOIUJPB4K--