From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id WDzjN5k2dWa7DgEA62LTzQ:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 08:15:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1.migadu.com with LMTPS id WDzjN5k2dWa7DgEA62LTzQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:15:22 +0200 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none ("invalid DKIM record") header.d=msavoritias.me header.s=20210930 header.b=YW0Z6WAF; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=msavoritias.me (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1718957721; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/Lw5Un7Kvwa07CbtFq/gzBSWMo5X81NCrvXvMcFDvRg=; b=qaK+Nty53gv3Y2M0Az604vzCGZTCLaaFI20KwToUXwlHv7aqFQSEp0cgRBbLnoOU48xUA5 pkrKRUttdzkGH/0peyBd5rtuwRPeOaqmc13bUtzKDQe6MeassOlLYiJCGqoFcTiVjAOCOJ AeSdZgxSplR5L00vxmfv2ZTNl8WzIN2FYdT0nLfxGVVmKI6MKoVATKwi05owASR4+GDer2 7JR2ufO9CsRdm+l07TU5r5ZN0fVRioMsA7AEp0AX2oAC47tV+Rk3igsiB5bWAnQOxqaJyC mgsbZlukkckngJsxbkjm94GUx/PPi8w1JenkEL1e7N/nXszx641esrbSL260QA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1718957721; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IZiV9nKSOC2GplpHe/MNkAQWT0qfid1poEA069H0Q8/WgvMWSepbSR9QKQtryTDODli1Fv SkVEK5NTrgbvpqtUdSdKNR9T/cdcdSd31jBeJxDqjDwIGyboBfm3aunw021odlP/x3HV/a 6JFXwSoGG5WVfzNhFvYJ5DaA0CmVpZXi9Z+40KdVixeInSMxVaUCDWxKFmxpsEMM73xwhr OXTBri7Ti7HtrLTYH9LTX20uC48OjjStbLAwLFJ7AhLYKI6v2ANe+MKOxfDCRPMW8xvGbA w9ovGGaabRDI/sb9X3m91DCBQ7AbQUEeCmNmBRqzSJwVh9m5b4jUfu5b0mhsKw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none ("invalid DKIM record") header.d=msavoritias.me header.s=20210930 header.b=YW0Z6WAF; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=msavoritias.me (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A32AA37D1A for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:15:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sKZPx-0005aW-Nx; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 04:14:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sKZPv-0005Zz-V5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 04:14:43 -0400 Received: from mail.webarch.email ([81.95.52.48]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sKZPu-0001Ro-9T for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 04:14:43 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 5F5CB1A888F0; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 09:14:31 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=msavoritias.me; s=20210930; t=1718957678; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references; bh=/Lw5Un7Kvwa07CbtFq/gzBSWMo5X81NCrvXvMcFDvRg=; b=YW0Z6WAFsRNAz+Ulhr/pvJWeAN3JYkLp+GDrx70deK2JdjKbtiB6gLVHPDjkuAQZ5VzMi1 hPf1jt3JqAoLpbmUxxDZVRbuJFR6LDHArLIVHsjOHHQKIqXzknbXrfazsHZJK0GIHa3KmF FWIw98OrhwwJf6nD+3uwWe4koBdpok7Ff4sFo1JKyHOyr5lsCRvWIh4Iy4rnJa+Zjqf4Qv OkCKyUFWcZqxAMA4fTWTUXprI4ZzOX9vYcGcIFat/J9MVgpeLm3uSdjIhGYYo2Zi7+fbrA Z0EP3UYWPf5x80b+1SLZwuHk6Ks/nQTebPrZj/5aOvVIsZOQB7S8C6NJbHqzEg== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 11:14:18 +0300 From: MSavoritias To: Andy Tai Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Next Steps For the Software Heritage Problem (Dale Mellor) Message-ID: <20240621111418.4de61ef3@fannys.me> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.1.1 (GTK 3.24.41; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A32AA37D1A X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.26 X-Spam-Score: -6.26 X-TUID: CIFqzgoVR3n+ On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 14:43:30 -0700 Andy Tai wrote: > > Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 09:36:29 +0100 > > From: Dale Mellor > > I use Guix as a tool to develop my own projects, private and > > personal for reasons I'm keeping to myself. As part of that I write package > > definitions for them, and use the Guix machinery to build and test. I *cannot* > > have Guix just giving my code away to anybody, that is just fundamentally wrong. > > > If you release software as free software, you are giving away > software, to anybody and everybody. Legally yes. But I think Dale talks about the social rules that I have been repeating in these threads :) > > We need to ask what is Guix? A free operating system, a framework for > > developing free operating systems, or a more generic tool for software > > development and deployment? If the latter it *cannot* do nefarious things > > without explicit consent. > > Guix is a free operating system _and_ a generic tool for software > development and deployment. It makes no sense to say it does nefarious things > without explicit consent. Just like you cannot try to prohibit GNU > Make from being used to do nefarious things like building malware. > You cannot place usage restriction on free software. We already do tho! We restrict what one can do if they interact with GPL code. Aside from that even Guix uploading all code from the packages to SWH that basically feeds it to a LLM model is indeed not honoring consent of the author of the package. What you can do legally doesn't matter if you are an asshole after all. So in this context it absolutely makes sense. Because we have social rules around consent and Guix doesn't seem to be following them currently. MSavoritias