From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kPQ2NerISGMn0QAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:26:50 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id LTpMNerISGPdCQEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:26:50 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B29CF2CFC7 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:26:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38810 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ojAPR-0007so-Od for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 22:26:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ojAOm-0007pb-Cp for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 22:26:09 -0400 Received: from mx1.dismail.de ([78.46.223.134]:35123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ojAOh-00034i-8p for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2022 22:26:08 -0400 Received: from mx1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 395ad592; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:25:58 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=dismail.de; h=date :message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= 20190914; bh=6I9i3vCW9fFMOzp+gsOoXpqjx9BlwgJBkVuT7yZ4Rwc=; b=PNn rEn5HsvRJITRV9DB8az3gnZ9Xpze2YWBA/dOVwK9ECq7vV2Tsj7Nks5yTOiIU2nE o9GKl/+51sivhv8LdNZwOCtHXyryVJGPhfiDnOBtGC3rQhaFWgWoQiRYXCOdgmUx 7xdfHH0XZFcvf7BLwqJ9aBf6gZrN3P4C43qO9jUAmPnDcq/bVM31tEVDLNhxIADv wNRAkrwnyl4CQl6oeRZV/YEwZ+XIah9yQXZXyDQn0RPP0Sw/RzUpjhx3czkmSnMD FsxlnflZYGdUC1tLhK0AieyjfCqrVMQC8MWnvylElWRvqOkcF0H6r+6fnggfJy6Z sPuY5HeLo9j0XYZH8+Q== Received: from smtp2.dismail.de ( [10.240.26.12]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 59f16448; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:25:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 31a026d1; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:25:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 40e93d48 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:25:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 21:24:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20221013212421.GB25754@dismail.de> From: jgart To: pinoaffe Cc: indieterminacy , pinoaffe , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Guix Goals: One Hackable Developer Tool To Rule Them All In-Reply-To: <87zgdzpxzb.fsf@airmail.cc> References: <20221013010703.GB27375@dismail.de> <87a65zrepm.fsf@airmail.cc> <87zgdzpxzb.fsf@airmail.cc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=78.46.223.134; envelope-from=jgart@dismail.de; helo=mx1.dismail.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1665714410; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=RpiACHTd91+qH2e2JsQ4lLsRxOE7RJE2G7+oDHwEFU8=; b=fPM+sSLFTJgFuAV7pCgwwbC6OhaNQ9NxT/lxV4uEmCjmt7ftriU/oHWrGpRZ5xhnjviPnE AYjCJLrkp+XcPNK/aDzLJ4r29U75FuQ0xFJ8nph4R81Yyobarl1dIl/l2XKCYp64dkEGnn XU9bujaKfRewD1sgzuOqU7VHcmoh8sTaYFKekmQVU/T6gume3Da9Qxtp6yow8ORwoBVLM8 B0oE+W73uGk0bNxY8F4rbA4BRbTMgqA0ctitRNo3KKCWPz5oKsk9t1XjqjGSaIET8VbTPs A8MwfvymDr6BJEfQbbzfXs/ClSe3BPsvOSsWUqGE8aFP6f22T+1eVcmULlGypw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1665714410; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=PsSwZnbmnhwumVeAfFrleW8R7PI8UkPgdAem7NV5zm5py+s/poVu9yqattaBuUsDYpRTs/ wNbGCG4954J03WUMvKRVqXU6OsI+jvv1ZnkxmsUqRVwRAh+TU5T60uOBk+InSP+YuVLdzN fX/v5hZgYIal60kvMQmEDOmcwyVermn6iqKoRe897ZRAmi6xtPI4sd/VliqCowmG4ZHCIW wJyvGotANUotsfzWZ1hN6TddzZpfYqqmFPmg6mxG5gcGfeFKrZsShmSgfl2xA/w+Pw2mwM JwL9bvW4++h4cCPxVn20kZyvUhocOqLJqLxPOEVdXt7O8RI4hI7WJ4tkq0tGgg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=dismail.de header.s=20190914 header.b="PNn rEn5"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=dismail.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.70 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=dismail.de header.s=20190914 header.b="PNn rEn5"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=dismail.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B29CF2CFC7 X-Spam-Score: -7.70 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: eNn3UcqYqt5/ On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 16:55:33 +0200 pinoaffe wrote: What I proposed is not an original idea but what the pants project does. See this doc: https://www.pantsbuild.org/v1.29/docs/goals Pants fully supports Python but they are quickly working on golang, java, and other languages. zimoun, I'm mostly just brainstorming the general idea at the moment. I don't mind if it takes the form of `guix project ...` or some other form. pinoaffe, I agree that the developer commands should be completely Guile configurable and hackable to our hacker heart's content, of course. That's why we're all here ;() Jonathan, > but hasnt Make cornered a lot of these usecases well enough? That didn't stop Guixers from making the gnu-build-system that paren hugs Make. Why stop there? If you want to call mypy from Make that's fine but I'd like to call mypy from Make from guix or why not cut out the middleman altogether? In the end I just want to see the same unifying guix ui experience transfered to dev tools across the polyglot stack. This infrastructure should be flexible enough to allow us to easily go unix plumbing if need be. Let's wrap the world in parens! paren hugs, jgart