From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id EDOoN4UYGWE+KgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 15:37:09 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 2HgrM4UYGWExUQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 13:37:09 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7738120D8 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 15:37:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:54818 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFGK4-0008BH-GA for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 09:37:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51646) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mEka8-0000vf-GI; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:43:36 -0400 Received: from wata.am-1.org ([2a00:1098:86:49::1]:47084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mEka5-0000jg-3K; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:43:36 -0400 Received: from [2001:470:1f13:1eb::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by wata.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mEkZc-0000DO-2B; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 03:43:04 +0000 Received: from ivan by violet.siamics.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mEkZL-0001vX-Td; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 03:42:48 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 03:42:47 +0000 From: Ivan Shmakov To: guix-devel@gnu.org, bug-hurd@gnu.org Subject: Re: Regarding copyright assignment to FSF Message-ID: <20210814034247.awjj2dtwkvxql6g4@violet.siamics.net> Mail-Followup-To: guix-devel@gnu.org, bug-hurd@gnu.org References: <20210810020240.wpd5pksgdh5e2e3u@begin> <874kbxl2kd.fsf@elephly.net> <20210810155634.ysjqffwwdv6nvmpc@begin> <87h7fwm8xm.fsf@gnu.org> <6374f720-89bf-29be-d575-ba556ada7032@zamaudio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <6374f720-89bf-29be-d575-ba556ada7032@zamaudio.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1098:86:49::1; envelope-from=ivan@siamics.net; helo=wata.am-1.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 09:36:06 -0400 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1629034629; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=AHR5gzeJYKCUuH1FuDmR1hU/I+BClpoKEZFasMDhYro=; b=hIjFkcbDwypa1vhexPhCezprk6jYoJyhl+bMhgVvIJioVXyN8de82Lmfm+ZYscUNWaxu39 K/cwKTrSMyjQaA1r+/gm+Ym9an5mR3g/fw8wTi2nGQ54bLm43gvZzEpXSUhX9WJCgrNyY7 3f5FUMrdv/j6oLb4EKDYo/EDxxYGJEqYIYikO/KU8NrQDfgHj47j6KOVErKyBqgjpCkzlW jZ5wtEBXWc5a/Jdab4k4msEZZ7oiWZJQpWzyuBr7trJ2GzL/TbiQ3sLXuEpRWvOAY7f6WL kU2YMDg9SAY7cZZ5PNYarz/B3aEngldqZqahi9xrO6ileMIvCgJUqthlZQPB1A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1629034629; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XFh9OTPSmogrFMofgi5IABg8bJl1gm9g0VGtiFutNTcJSfQR2fVPMZ5eK/M/TMxNiIXZFR I7Uf+WbYqHrouT1sOkuf1Yxi8Mz8rUlzQCcQlTc+HZXcF6ZHHpcoqjDUeY5xYlmr3ZOs2v pOcWlut+w4gssQP8Z1TLyv7TaRyHxVtz1MU746Yq4zGChbfVhlOMc55yKMRqVTN73VeosG KCIRp5xqbsGFhKIN/i/ksdxMVfHxXILn4HwrSYrkCmRN866CD6kw/6s1ehjCZmcLZ+cXrQ H3VUuSK0psvM5RxnjERkWYamFz1JQfwYBhgp2LLjx4yHS9+LFrvIOKMWjkJkQg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=siamics.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.31 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=siamics.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7738120D8 X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZF0ZLKmnGETj >>>>> On 2021-08-12 12:18:20 +1000, Damien Zammit wrote: >>>>> On 11/8/21 11:01 pm, Ludovic Courtès wrote: This seem somewhat off-topic for the lists, so I’m open to suggestions on what other forum to use (should anyone wish to continue this thread.) My suggestion is, as usual, to use a Usenet newsgroup, such as comp.misc, for the purpose. (See http://www.aioe.org/ for a free, no registration needed, IPv4-only newsserver; or http://www.eternal-september.org/ for free registration, IPv6 + IPv4 one.) >> It would be interesting to consider dropping the copyright assignment >> requirement for Hurd/Mach/MiG. For what remains primarily a hobby >> project, this looks to me like a hindrance more than anything else. > I imagine it is slightly inconvenient for new contributors, but not a > hindrance in my opinion. I’m going to concur; there’s some delay, sure, but not that much of actual effort on the part of the new contributor. Unless, of course, one’s employer is uncooperative, but I’m afraid that can’t be helped. > It ensures that FSF has complete control of the licensing. And enforcement. I’d argue that in a better world, no copyright assignment would be necessary (nor would be GPL, but that’s another matter), as anyone would be able to bring an infringement case to the court entirely by themselves. As it is, however, some considerations apply. As I understand it (though IANAL), there’re two parts to this story. First of all, copyright enforcement is, in general, a process that itself requires certain effort. Do you have time to spare on filing a suit? Will you have some more to see it through? Do you know a good lawyer to hire, or do you have the necessary skills to represent yourself in the court? What remedy will you seek? Moreover, /copyleft/ enforcement is tricky by itself. Copyright was devised, basically, as a legal tool for author to sue his publisher for royalties. As such, even though that does seem to slowly change, the first question of the court for your newly- brought GPL-infringement case would be: what sum, in your opinion, does the company owe you? Are you prepared to answer that? Given the above, I’m inclined to think that assigning copyright to a party legally prepared to fight for it to be a sensible choice /whether it is required or not./ And /especially/ for hobby projects; for I presume that for something you do for living, you’ll be quite in position to estimate damages arising from someone infringing your copyright. From here, we may try to rank different charities on how well they handle their enforcement cases. My guess is that FSF will come near the top. The other part concerns one’s employer, and the terms of the contract. For instance, the contract I’m currently under says that I’m entitled to copyright on any and all works I create, /unless/ I’ve been specifically directed by the employer to create any given work. From what I’ve heard, however, some contracts allow the /employer/ (variant: school) to claim copyright over any work created by the employee during the term of the contract. In this case, it’s arguably better for all parties involved to have the employer’s position clarified and known. Copyright assignment is one, though perhaps not the only, way it can be done. -- FSF associate member #7257 http://am-1.org/~ivan/