From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id EO8rFqBpyGD/oQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 10:49:36 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id mNfiEaBpyGDieAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 08:49:36 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6F16261B6 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 10:49:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41366 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lt4lK-0002OH-O2 for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:49:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lt4kc-0002Nt-7l for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:48:50 -0400 Received: from mail.thebird.nl ([94.142.245.5]:51600) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lt4ka-0003Ni-64; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:48:49 -0400 Received: by mail.thebird.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4E0A71054; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 10:48:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 10:48:45 +0200 From: Pjotr Prins To: Leo Prikler Subject: Re: Idea: a meta language for (language) build systems - npm, Racket, Rust cargo Message-ID: <20210615084845.jm45hyviblduvzl7@thebird.nl> References: <20210530083847.o5ej63obqnzpwnbd@thebird.nl> <20210531174748.mhaelcqwmo7degfc@thebird.nl> <87y2bkfqm4.fsf@gnu.org> <20210614142923.tp23ba6htoao4vfv@thebird.nl> <35dd481ec1c8c2e8f1f65b74bcdbe1980da3b5b0.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <35dd481ec1c8c2e8f1f65b74bcdbe1980da3b5b0.camel@student.tugraz.at> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=94.142.245.5; envelope-from=pjotr2021@thebird.nl; helo=mail.thebird.nl X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623746976; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=3DzwXA3QAoeGEqFE9uK6a7BIJb7j4qdUJjwGQ5fAJ3E=; b=LJN3zawz14T4UkSHdhBTnSaMjsh/qU2tL0Syvbc19aoi1ITG4pQj0KPuXi3mL5V7O/jqV9 i8zgVPv5puVOrmFK3HibHd9eGwCOi15yf1q8Y4r2ee73wI/1SYDAcDyTnDdWkLB2qF/vYU Ge6E+hYli5fKEgn0VQbJ4xB/paa//3UiCrLohuoLJbku5W5iV7X7KsOZxLJvBLxC7sDtKV 5GU7l84lFw5R4drYKNR3Ee+Hc4r9OrLCHwvK8HlFV5op3DUjIHZWY/1qFdUoWGyy9nuv9O /WedR3YsNSq7oDITpcP8PIcaadZfFNWGEUiMgYuUJdDFwXoBQr3klTCoLA1YVg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623746976; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lfC3KqkoXK84Q0F7ngPRhh5uUx9kiemlkfyo6FizCqLER8+g6SFMOtYAS9n3eCMFdQwAbo 9oZWsDhx5yj3Svgg9iqhREIt9TS15NDu8hITzwkkQD3/f3KkF9P3V22sQ12kQz9WsJs10N abhqfiZHYGbZ5jRRTfvdyfFYiDTCzFFR/FqAQQ5P4R7Xz9yJmt2cfYKVv/s6oLhQp4wHQ5 h/pxKnGlPMo7MF1OJC2NZz2/VLg0i2Vkmb8C2ZziNrOJryZMmSOskR8nYnpM6gshnnWtmY /dsSI+Zso9kr7ZxB3gXzAk7FFPatTRLexwVhsGcogkg7C6gkBeoFpXA4TS2WBg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.42 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D6F16261B6 X-Spam-Score: -2.42 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: zwSmR2gzsx2K On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 12:04:59AM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > Soon: There are 15 competing build systems Very true ;) > Guix as a build system, with or without GWL, is fine as long as it's > just fun and games, but it comes with the serious downside of not being > compatible with any other distro out there. Perhaps that works out for Maybe. I can still support cargo - just don't want to deal with it... A Debian target would not be too hard. > What we need in order to make packages written in Rust less of a PITA > is more widespread usage of generic build systems like make or meson. > We won't get there with cargo cult programming. On a somewhat related > note, I find it amusing, that Rust folk dread the usage of Rust without > cargo, as if the Rust standard library on its own was somehow worthless > or something :P Meson may be good enough (indeed). I have one project that uses meson effectively and it is not bad. But I had to look up a lot of things - it is sometimes counterintuitive and hardly simple. Sure beats cmake and autotools. Still, it could be simpler. Pj.