From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4MZuIQfFiWCBbgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 22:26:47 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id IIpCHQfFiWD5awAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:26:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E985A15BC0 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 22:26:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46262 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbqlh-0007SQ-CT for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:26:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39866) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbqjp-0007SF-2H for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:24:49 -0400 Received: from mail.thebird.nl ([94.142.245.5]:37526) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbqjm-0007cF-Cx for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:24:48 -0400 Received: by mail.thebird.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE25D100A; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 22:24:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 22:24:39 +0200 From: Pjotr Prins To: Leo Famulari Subject: Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes) Message-ID: <20210428202439.x66enc6dpbxkhhtu@thebird.nl> References: <87tunz11mf.fsf@netris.org> <87y2daz13x.fsf@netris.org> <87r1j2z079.fsf@netris.org> <87a6pqypf9.fsf@netris.org> <87wnsp7yo9.fsf@gnu.org> <87v986pdej.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=94.142.245.5; envelope-from=pjotr2021@thebird.nl; helo=mail.thebird.nl X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619641607; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=wHgYmK8HSPR9cOPQNG3yuGeThBhLvneRMvVui/laCR0=; b=K81rNZr6OyCG3ENbavGtcxQyKH+4YRk7vbdJhaa2Okqmg/nenRIjFJwF5RQZixvc3tLsV6 Fsd/E90ZPDi5Zu7RMd+G2VUoTC3kaFoErG0T3tZ/oZeKQzJmDIKmSbzKTtRkrVDW45i4tk Z9sIoqg6FqyaGc4Jz2FhKVLZH8WNwDAACXFNe4kZ9orWnOqRXgfHuV4cLER6Ks2uVbXjsj 90iVnyAtZSpfa4VmlmoBkuqqLLCiIqrKeWwwmlg0xVZxe7CC/57+nBodQQ5bnrrPFmdOGG ZmR263VUBJJ+4wROZUCPi2Sz9789FEl6cra/VASQGyWReRnJG1siKKYyYEoN5w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619641607; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XXLgI8zYM2czcaErAjDsnI8P55kfnwC4Kuq+dcR7NQTAUdmE/5uPZ71fp13dsQ/F3gXNfP tz8VsfW+atx/vxpX3aNTvPkHG+Myefq4D075vSiahPO88srrDvAb+AnL1Ze6JWANIF0Qcl ONNRXInHR2yt3kPk0Y60iQAoUGYlCV7cEaruhIke7eq0r+Cr/HnseaDlRgpYLM6mukHWCA jbEbmT4333IMACtJh6knuKawAE529NN9M1Y5UEN8AO5RruKXaeDMKgI3cd56FetQ0JXMU2 g64CoeAx0H5ziVEWAqKlluEtLh+mIGMepjRL1tNk0a08ucaN7yru/i8zKSR8zA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E985A15BC0 X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: o5b3EETtdLZX Dear Leo, On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 01:55:25PM -0400, Leo Famulari wrote: > You should have sent a message that explained the problem and tried to > teach the solution. I've seen you do it many times before; That is perhaps fair comment. It is always best to be constructive and not too personal. The latter is probably what rubs people the wrong way, especially in public. Good advice, in other words. Going by my experience in Guix - if we were to meet personally we would all be impressed by each other, that includes the other Leo and Mark. I think Guix developers are special and all have made interesting journeys to get here. Lisp is an great filter. I wonder how we end up with more Leos than Marks, however ;) But let me defend Mark here (a little). I'll only do this once. I don't think it was malicious even if it did not look nice. Truth is we should also try to look a little beyond the surface. The intention matters. What I read was exasperation. But really, partly to prevent character assassination, I think that if anyone crosses a line the accuser should use our complaints channels. That is what they are for. We should not accuse each other about behaviour in a public channel. Mostly because it is very hard to defend oneself against opinion (of a majority). Pj.