From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 0F3dOhwRul5ASQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 02:59:40 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id mOFACSsRul5PagAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 02:59:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8E5B940FEB for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 02:59:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39128 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYL97-0006RC-Ju for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 22:59:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51820) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYL8y-0006Qx-NN for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 22:59:44 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:59546) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYL8x-0007FD-Fj for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 22:59:44 -0400 Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49LjFp4BpzzFfh0 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:59:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1589252382; bh=vVQ/hEfaHa81SemxdvdYZIzQDJJojCU96Fd+dSnoXLo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=GI1D/Kb7YtCIX5eus0+UWexxSQ1PoTP21jf69PVvziUToe6OAR5ErZyR21mhBsOGw +wk+EqP5v3om+g/O+w8nNJOXLwKdWldow4p2JAl0CKD3OLvYVjCRCYgy2gHMlkV4hQ XdixqR3Ewmf9crdpUj6bNLPHqCuvVaPdpsLDLqZ4= X-Riseup-User-ID: 0FDDFC0813C1BE82134784C0562E48D2F9C13695069F1DD3A6822B1E2923F398 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49LjFn6sHvzJnlK for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 04:58:25 +0200 From: raingloom To: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Towards a graphical installer? Message-ID: <20200512045825.6b3ff8b3@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: <20200511162909.4shsuvtnbxfyvuv2@pelzflorian.localdomain> References: <87k11iwqim.fsf@gnu.org> <20200511162909.4shsuvtnbxfyvuv2@pelzflorian.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=raingloom@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/11 22:59:41 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -0.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=GI1D/Kb7; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-0.71 / 13.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.53989500384044]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[riseup.net:server fail,209.51.188.17:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.07), country: US(-0.00), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.54)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[raingloom@riseup.net,guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[pelzflorian.de:email,riseup.net:dkim]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[guix-devel@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DNSWL_BLOCKED(0.00)[209.51.188.17:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.51.188.17:from]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: Ne3E98H1xJLC On Mon, 11 May 2020 18:29:09 +0200 "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" wrote: > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 03:27:29PM +0200, Mathieu Othacehe wrote: > > A way to move forward with the installer could be to propose an ISO > > image starting a desktop-environment by default. [=E2=80=A6] =20 >=20 > Thank you for investigating. >=20 > I suppose keyboard input method (IME) support is a reason why someone > might wish to use an Xorg-based installer. Are there other reasons? > What are the reasons for a real desktop environment; is the goal to > offer a live image? Previously I would have thought a virtual console > is more likely to work everywhere, but kmscon has the same > requirements as Xorg and without kmscon we=E2=80=99d lose i18n. >=20 > Regards, > Florian >=20 Can the TUI installer be used with a screen reader? AFAIK it can't but I'd love to be proven wrong. Anyway, there are also other accessibility options that are useful. High contrast, magnifier, sticky keys, etc. GNOME provides these. Even if you aren't blind or disabled in general, you might just have to install an operating system without a working screen one day.