From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Jean Louis Subject: Re: Joint statement on the GNU Project Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 19:59:39 +0200 Message-ID: <20191012175939.GC20618@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <87ftk4hbhu.fsf@gnu.org> <8eaaa9a2-a5ff-b64a-48bf-954150fecc63@gmail.com> <20191012130631.GJ15371@protected.rcdrun.com> <20191012133829.hep5xrh6blzpldxo@pelzflorian.localdomain> <004bdc31-c191-0459-509c-dcffbda327ab@frantovo.cz> <20191012172207.GV15371@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40697) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJLg9-0005bI-9Y for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:59:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJLg8-0007MU-55 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:59:45 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Wilson Bustos Cc: "guix-devel@gnu.org" , fsf-and-gnu@fsf.org, gnu-and-fsf@gnu.org * Wilson Bustos [2019-10-12 19:47]: > P, > The problem is when that politics gets extreme. > For example at the point to change the rules of a human language just for > politics reason. > > The guixSD Spanish manual for example says : 'la usuaria' to refer to every > user I understand that certain languages have only he or she uses, then in such case is not right to step into one side, but to mention "usuaria" or "usuario", mentioning both sexes. > But in Spanish 'la usuaria' only refers to a female user, and 'el usuario' > refer to every user, a male or both to be more exact. > > The rules to create a gender neutral language in the manual in some > languages as the Spanish is not possible, because there is not way to > achieve that in Spanish at least. Then make the point by including both sexes in the text. > But also the the new rule is creating a 'feminist languaje' due to 'la > usuaria' is only for woman's So the new rule is made by feminists? That has no place in any GNU project. It is incorrect to favor one group over the other. GNU project is apolitical. > The reason to do that is only political, the argument is the woman's > feels not get represented when you says 'el usuario'. Which women? Please make specific statistic. In public relations one has to do survey, and normally minimum of 1000 people would be asked in a neutral manner. You would go to Spain or spanish speaking country, and you would give them the text to be read without influencing a person in any manner. Then you would ask questions if text is alright and if they feel discriminated by any manner? Next question would be if they feel discriminated by using usuario instead usuaria. And then you would ask would it be better to use both usuario/a in the text. And you would ask for some other solution. Then you would evaluate answers from 1000 people. Then such survey could be published and given to GNU decision makers to further make it just for people who feel discriminated. But in those countries where usuario is used, there is meaning in dictionaries that it does not mean only male, but also female. It is shortage of the language. Invent the word. But don't stand on one side, as it is nonsense to say that usuario would only be politically correct as it is not. > But in the real world, only a feminist person can say that. > > The translation work should be translate a lenguaje to another, not create > a new languaje' to accommodate your political ideas. If local language does not support neutral gender I think it is alright to create new language in any of GNU texts so to exclude any affected group and be politically neutral and welcoming to everybody. Jean