From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tonton Subject: Re: Promoting the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines? Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:36:48 +0200 Message-ID: <20181026233648.0fd1ea35@merlin.browniehive.net> References: <87k1m852yc.fsf@gnu.org> <20181024010640.GA14776@antares.lan> <87y3an8xxe.fsf@gnu.org> <20181024142115.GA2088@antares.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33181) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG9mu-0006aZ-P8 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:37:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG9mq-0006D3-PE for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:37:00 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:51069) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG9mq-0006CF-Bc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:36:56 -0400 Received: from cotinga.riseup.net (cotinga-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15B221A0409 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cotinga.riseup.net with ESMTPSA id 2109D100592 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:36:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20181024142115.GA2088@antares.lan> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:21:16 -0500 Alex Griffin wrote: > Jack Hill skribis: > > > > Interesting. I too am eager understand your thinking on this. =20 >=20 > I am skeptical of codes of conduct in FLOSS projects because they often=20 > come bundled with a certain (non-software-related) political orthodoxy. >=20 > The Contributor Covenant is the worst offender in this regard, having=20 > been created specifically for that purpose [1]. Although most of the=20 > offending text has now been removed from the document itself, the same=20 > spirit still follows behind it to projects that adopt the CC. CoC's are most definitely political, just like the GKCG. Orthodoxy in this context I think is mostly meaningless - as most sides of this debate are as orthodox as the others. There's also this: > "I don=E2=80=99t agree with Coraline Ada Ehmke=E2=80=99s politics. Should= I avoid this code > of conduct? >=20 > If you=E2=80=99re a meritocracy fan, you already abide by the principle of > separating the person from the contribution. And even if you=E2=80=99re n= ot, > adopting the Contributor Covenant does not imply any political or social > orientation aside from the (unfortunately politicized) goal of making your > project welcoming and inclusive to people of all backgrounds." - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/faq While I do agree that CoC's should be redundant and unneeded, our current culture in FLOSS is sadly not there yet. Harrasment is - at least as far as= I have observed - way to common. An interesting element here is that many of = the harrassers don't seem to understand that they are harrassing. This is the reason why, as has been discussed before on this list, I (I thi= nk we/Guix) try to tell people kindly. It is after all normal to make mistakes, it is also the way we learn. Usually nudging people to use inclusive langua= ge and reminding ourselves when we slip is enough - and it encourages a much nicer, and I'd argue productive, community. I see this in my day to day situation also. I have to admit I'm surprised at how good the GKCGs are. But, as has already bin pointed out, it is lacking some important elements like process and acceptable and unacceptable. As some have come up and stated they quit Guix because of the CoC; I'm at t= he opposite end of the spectrum. I run Guix with or without the community, but= I choose to participate in Guix because it has a good CoC that is held with kindness by many in the community. I look forward to winter, when I have more time for programming... :)