* Please put the system-configuration into the image @ 2017-09-05 17:44 Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-05 17:55 ` Adam Pribyl 2017-09-05 18:05 ` ng0 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-05 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guix-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 828 bytes --] Hi, I'm afraid, I'm late to the discussion and I don't find the thread about it in the archives. But I want to share me experience as a "user": I'm in strong favor of putting the system-configuration used to build the disk-image into the disk-image. Yesterday I wanted to give the provided QEMU-image a try (I'm still using guix on a foreign distro) and play with the system-config. Being a "newbie" to GuixSD it would be a great starting-point for experiments. But I did not find it? There seems to be no system-config.scm in /etc, so I would have to start from scratch - which is not that encouraging :-( Just my 42 cent -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | [-- Attachment #2: 0xBF773B65.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 14855 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-05 17:44 Please put the system-configuration into the image Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-05 17:55 ` Adam Pribyl 2017-09-05 18:05 ` ng0 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Adam Pribyl @ 2017-09-05 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: guix-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 996 bytes --] On Tue, 5 Sep 2017, Hartmut Goebel wrote: > Hi, > > I'm afraid, I'm late to the discussion and I don't find the thread about > it in the archives. But I want to share me experience as a "user": > > I'm in strong favor of putting the system-configuration used to build > the disk-image into the disk-image. > > Yesterday I wanted to give the provided QEMU-image a try (I'm still > using guix on a foreign distro) and play with the system-config. Being a > "newbie" to GuixSD it would be a great starting-point for experiments. > But I did not find it? There seems to be no system-config.scm in /etc, > so I would have to start from scratch - which is not that encouraging :-( There is example config in doc https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/guix.html#Using-the-Configuration-System available as info too. But I agree, that some "startup" sysconfig-config would be fine too inside the distro. > Just my 42 cent > > -- > Regards > Hartmut Goebel Adam Pribyl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-05 17:44 Please put the system-configuration into the image Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-05 17:55 ` Adam Pribyl @ 2017-09-05 18:05 ` ng0 2017-09-06 17:23 ` Hartmut Goebel 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: ng0 @ 2017-09-05 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hartmut Goebel; +Cc: guix-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1284 bytes --] Hartmut Goebel transcribed 15K bytes: > Hi, > > I'm afraid, I'm late to the discussion and I don't find the thread about > it in the archives. But I want to share me experience as a "user": > > I'm in strong favor of putting the system-configuration used to build > the disk-image into the disk-image. > > Yesterday I wanted to give the provided QEMU-image a try (I'm still > using guix on a foreign distro) and play with the system-config. Being a > "newbie" to GuixSD it would be a great starting-point for experiments. > But I did not find it? There seems to be no system-config.scm in /etc, > so I would have to start from scratch - which is not that encouraging :-( > > Just my 42 cent > > -- > Regards > Hartmut Goebel > > | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | > | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | > Hi! The config used to build the disk-image is in gnu/system/install.scm see https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Building-the-Installation-Image.html#Building-the-Installation-Image hope this helps. -- ng0 GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 GnuPG: https://n0is.noblogs.org/my-keys https://www.infotropique.org https://krosos.org [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-05 18:05 ` ng0 @ 2017-09-06 17:23 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-07 8:30 ` Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-06 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guix-devel Am 05.09.2017 um 20:05 schrieb ng0: > The config used to build the disk-image is in gnu/system/install.scm > see https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Building-the-Installation-Image.html#Building-the-Installation-Image > hope this helps. Thanks for pointing to this – I didn't recognize that. Nevertheless I would expect to have it in the image so I can start hacking without first searching the manual and copy-pasting the file. This is primary to lower the entry level :-) -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-06 17:23 ` Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-07 8:30 ` Ludovic Courtès 2017-09-07 9:20 ` Hartmut Goebel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2017-09-07 8:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hartmut Goebel; +Cc: guix-devel Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis: > Am 05.09.2017 um 20:05 schrieb ng0: >> The config used to build the disk-image is in gnu/system/install.scm >> see https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Building-the-Installation-Image.html#Building-the-Installation-Image >> hope this helps. > > Thanks for pointing to this – I didn't recognize that. > > Nevertheless I would expect to have it in the image so I can start > hacking without first searching the manual and copy-pasting the file. > This is primary to lower the entry level :-) It is in the image, in the form of the (gnu system install) module. However, I don’t quite understand the use case: you’d like to hack on the OS declaration of the image from within the image? That sounds inconvenient no? When hacking on that image, I simply do that from my main GuixSD installation with: guix system vm gnu/system/install.scm HTH, Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-07 8:30 ` Ludovic Courtès @ 2017-09-07 9:20 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-07 12:43 ` ng0 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-07 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: guix-devel Am 07.09.2017 um 10:30 schrieb Ludovic Courtès: > However, I don’t quite understand the use case: you’d like to hack on > the OS declaration of the image from within the image? That sounds > inconvenient no? My use case is this: I plan to use GuixSD for one of my systems. Prior to installing GuixSD on real hardware, I want to test it and see how a GuixSD system would work and feel. And taking the perspective of a non-developer, I don't have any GuixSD yet. I may be using Fedora or Debian and want to try out GuixSD. For this I use the QEMU image My understanding is that I would have a system-definition describing this very system and if I want to change the system-configuration, I change the system-definition. On e.g. Debian I would apt-get software and change config-files, while on GuixSD I would change the system-definition and reconfigure. And I imagine to have the corresponding system-definition *in* the system, since in this use-case there is no separate "main GuixSD installation". Like when using ansible, puppet, etc. for managing *this* system, I need the system definition *for* this system *in* this system. I hope this is clearer now. -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-07 9:20 ` Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-07 12:43 ` ng0 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: ng0 @ 2017-09-07 12:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hartmut Goebel; +Cc: guix-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2217 bytes --] Hartmut Goebel transcribed 1.3K bytes: > Am 07.09.2017 um 10:30 schrieb Ludovic Courtès: > > However, I don’t quite understand the use case: you’d like to hack on > > the OS declaration of the image from within the image? That sounds > > inconvenient no? > > My use case is this: > > I plan to use GuixSD for one of my systems. Prior to installing GuixSD > on real hardware, I want to test it and see how a GuixSD system would > work and feel. And taking the perspective of a non-developer, I don't > have any GuixSD yet. I may be using Fedora or Debian and want to try out > GuixSD. For this I use the QEMU image You can take any system configuration file and build a shared or free-standing vm with the "guix system" function. It's really easy this way. "guix system vm config.scm" would produce a vm and in the end you get a shell script you can use to start this vm. > My understanding is that I would have a system-definition describing > this very system and if I want to change the system-configuration, I > change the system-definition. On e.g. Debian I would apt-get software > and change config-files, while on GuixSD I would change the > system-definition and reconfigure. > > And I imagine to have the corresponding system-definition *in* the > system, since in this use-case there is no separate "main GuixSD > installation". Like when using ansible, puppet, etc. for managing *this* > system, I need the system definition *for* this system *in* this system. > > I hope this is clearer now. Wouldn't simply keeping the configuration file(s) in a git help (for a start)? This is what I do personally: https://gitweb.krosos.org/systems For infotropique I have this combination of plain config files (templates) and (almost) the same content in variations of the before referenced "install.scm". > -- > Regards > Hartmut Goebel > > | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | > | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | > > > > -- ng0 GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 GnuPG: https://n0is.noblogs.org/my-keys https://www.infotropique.org https://krosos.org [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-07 12:43 ` ng0 @ 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-08 11:42 ` Vincent Legoll ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-08 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès, guix-devel Am 07.09.2017 um 14:43 schrieb ng0: > You can take any system configuration file and build a shared or free-standing > vm with the "guix system" function. It I'm afraid, you did not get the point (No offence meant!): I know that I can do this. I also know that I can maintain configs via git. But all this is the developers perspective. If somebody is downloading the ISO-image and installing GuixSD on some machine – stand-alone, no other GuixSD systems around: He/she would store the system-config somewhere on the machine, change it and "reconfigure" and hack around. (At least this is what I would do.) So why there is no starting-point for system-config in the image? Why would the user need to download it from some (no quite obvious) internet-address? I also would expect to have the config for this very system at hand. Yes, the manual has a section "Building the Installation Image", but *if* I ever recognize this section, I'd still have to dig into the source and fetch the actual file. For making live easier for new users and for encouraging them to re-gain the power over their computer, we should IMHO serve the config on silver plate. I hope my motivation is more clear now. -- Regards Hartmut Goebel | Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com | | www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel @ 2017-09-08 11:42 ` Vincent Legoll 2017-09-08 11:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2017-09-10 20:48 ` Ludovic Courtès 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Vincent Legoll @ 2017-09-08 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hartmut Goebel; +Cc: guix-devel I didn't want to get involved in this but feel the need to chime in to add my +1 on Hartmut's idea. On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> wrote: > Am 07.09.2017 um 14:43 schrieb ng0: >> You can take any system configuration file and build a shared or free-standing >> vm with the "guix system" function. It > > I'm afraid, you did not get the point (No offence meant!): I know that I > can do this. I also know that I can maintain configs via git. But all > this is the developers perspective. Yes I also feel it that way > If somebody is downloading the ISO-image and installing GuixSD on some > machine – stand-alone, no other GuixSD systems around: He/she would > store the system-config somewhere on the machine, change it and > "reconfigure" and hack around. (At least this is what I would do.) That's what I did during my previous attempts at trying GuixSD. Did this in a QEmu VM. > So > why there is no starting-point for system-config in the image? Why would > the user need to download it from some (no quite obvious) internet-address? +1 > I also would expect to have the config for this very system at hand. > Yes, the manual has a section "Building the Installation Image", but > *if* I ever recognize this section, I'd still have to dig into the > source and fetch the actual file. > > For making live easier for new users and for encouraging them to re-gain > the power over their computer, we should IMHO serve the config on > silver plate. > > I hope my motivation is more clear now. You're not alone -- Vincent Legoll ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-08 11:42 ` Vincent Legoll @ 2017-09-08 11:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2017-09-08 12:07 ` Vincent Legoll 2017-09-10 20:48 ` Ludovic Courtès 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Julien Lepiller @ 2017-09-08 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guix-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2591 bytes --] Le 8 septembre 2017 12:11:45 GMT+02:00, Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> a écrit : >Am 07.09.2017 um 14:43 schrieb ng0: >> You can take any system configuration file and build a shared or >free-standing >> vm with the "guix system" function. It > >I'm afraid, you did not get the point (No offence meant!): I know that >I >can do this. I also know that I can maintain configs via git. But all >this is the developers perspective. > >If somebody is downloading the ISO-image and installing GuixSD on some >machine – stand-alone, no other GuixSD systems around: He/she would >store the system-config somewhere on the machine, change it and >"reconfigure" and hack around. (At least this is what I would do.) So >why there is no starting-point for system-config in the image? Why >would >the user need to download it from some (no quite obvious) >internet-address? > >I also would expect to have the config for this very system at hand. >Yes, the manual has a section "Building the Installation Image", but >*if* I ever recognize this section, I'd still have to dig into the >source and fetch the actual file. > >For making live easier for new users and for encouraging them to >re-gain >the power over their computer, we should IMHO serve the config on >silver plate. > >I hope my motivation is more clear now. > >-- >Regards >Hartmut Goebel > >| Hartmut Goebel | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com >| >| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible >| I also agree with Hartmut. In the installation image, we have /etc/configuration which contains some sample configuration you can start from to define your system. There is no need to have the configuration of the live system I think, because it is not what you want to install on your disk. The qemu image however is meant to be copied directly to the virtual disk of a VM, so it is not a live system, but your own system. I think it would be better for the user to be able to access the configuration directly from the VM and start from a known-good config before reconfiguring. I now have a running GuixSD VM and it was a pain to configure, because the interface to the VM did not allow copy-pasting and had a strange plugin for interpreting my keystrokes. Had I have this file on the VM, I could have modified only a small portion of it and continue with ssh. But I had to copy the sample config character by character and hope I did not do any mistake. If no one beats me to this, I'll try to make a patch for it this week-end. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2908 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-08 11:45 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2017-09-08 12:07 ` Vincent Legoll 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Vincent Legoll @ 2017-09-08 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Julien Lepiller; +Cc: guix-devel On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> wrote: > The qemu image however is meant to be copied directly to the virtual disk of > a VM, so it is not a live system, but your own system. I think it would be > better for the user to be able to access the configuration directly from the > VM and start from a known-good config before reconfiguring. It's not just a known good configuration that you want here, but the exact one that has been used to generate the image. > I now have a > running GuixSD VM and it was a pain to configure, because the interface to > the VM did not allow copy-pasting and had a strange plugin for interpreting > my keystrokes. Had I have this file on the VM, I could have modified only a > small portion of it and continue with ssh. But I had to copy the sample > config character by character and hope I did not do any mistake. Been there, done that too... -- Vincent Legoll ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Please put the system-configuration into the image 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-08 11:42 ` Vincent Legoll 2017-09-08 11:45 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2017-09-10 20:48 ` Ludovic Courtès 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2017-09-10 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hartmut Goebel; +Cc: guix-devel Hi, Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis: > If somebody is downloading the ISO-image and installing GuixSD on some > machine – stand-alone, no other GuixSD systems around: He/she would > store the system-config somewhere on the machine, change it and > "reconfigure" and hack around. (At least this is what I would do.) So > why there is no starting-point for system-config in the image? Why would > the user need to download it from some (no quite obvious) internet-address? As a user, you do *not* want to use the installation OS¹ as a template for your own system: it’s way too specific to a live installation image and more complicated than a “regular” system. Instead, you’ll want to use one of the three templates that are provided. They’re in the manual² (which is on tty2 when you’re installing), and also in /etc/configuration during the installation. No need to download them from a non-obvious internet address. Am I missing something? Thanks, Lud’. ¹ https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/system/install.scm#n296 ² https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Using-the-Configuration-System.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2017-09-10 20:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2017-09-05 17:44 Please put the system-configuration into the image Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-05 17:55 ` Adam Pribyl 2017-09-05 18:05 ` ng0 2017-09-06 17:23 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-07 8:30 ` Ludovic Courtès 2017-09-07 9:20 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-07 12:43 ` ng0 2017-09-08 10:11 ` Hartmut Goebel 2017-09-08 11:42 ` Vincent Legoll 2017-09-08 11:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2017-09-08 12:07 ` Vincent Legoll 2017-09-10 20:48 ` Ludovic Courtès
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