From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Leo Famulari Subject: Re: User-Friendlyness of Guix and non-scaryness, printing messages Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 15:20:58 -0400 Message-ID: <20170528192058.GF15883@jasmine> References: <87bbe3e5.AEAAKL2r-KIAAAAAAAAAAAOtUOAAAAACwQwAAAAAAAW9WABZGcQo@mailjet.com> <87y3tw4kw3.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2zfx0xt.fsf@gnu.org> <427678e8.AEUAKjfDcSgAAAAAAAAAAAPB0agAAAACwQwAAAAAAAW9WABZKceD@mailjet.com> <20170528204437.6dfd35c4@scratchpost.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aPdhxNJGSeOG9wFI" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dF3kS-0006YK-4k for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 May 2017 15:21:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dF3kN-0004yc-5i for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 May 2017 15:21:08 -0400 Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:37417) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dF3kL-0004xz-8T for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 May 2017 15:21:03 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170528204437.6dfd35c4@scratchpost.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Danny Milosavljevic Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org --aPdhxNJGSeOG9wFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 08:44:44PM +0200, Danny Milosavljevic wrote: > Ideally, a successful build & installation of a package should look > like this: >=20 > $ guix package -i foobar > $=20 Silence is golden! > Nothing else. If you can't help it, then: >=20 > $ guix package -i foobar > Package foobar in version 2.3.2 has been successfully installed into your= profile. > $=20 [...] > For a successful installation it should *never* print (as it does now): >=20 > $ guix package -i foobar > ...aphics/opentype -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.1= 6.3/Source/WebCore/platform/graphics/transforms -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk= -2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/platform/mediastream -I/tmp/g= uix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/platform/m= ediastream/libwebrtc -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.1= 6.3/Source/WebCore/platform/mock -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/w= ebkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/platform/mock/mediasource -I/tmp/guix-build-= webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/platform/network -I/= tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/platf= orm/sql -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/We= bCore/platform/text -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16= =2E3/Source/WebCore/platform/text/icu -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.16.3.dr= v-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/Source/WebCore/plugins -I/tmp/guix-build-webkitgtk-2.1= 6.3.drv-0/webkitgtk-2.16.3/ This sample omits the most useful output, which is the summary of what will be done. In my opinion, a successful run of `guix package` should either print this summary and the name of the new generation, or be as verbose as it is now. > I think that a line containing something like > "36pqsgbqi7kkkkn89sqrp2hyk3gxm8zv" (like install-file would print, > too) should never appear in front of the user in normal operation. >=20 Perhaps for `guix package`, but I disagree for `guix build` and others. It prints *only* the new store items on stdout, and this makes it very easy to compose Guix commands. We should not break this. > Some programmer (!) colleagues of mine actually remarked something > like "what is THAT? Looks scary" when they looked at what guix prints > when I install something in Guix. I understand that your colleagues share your opinion, but they are few, and don't even use Guix, so we should not take this small sample too seriously. We can all look at the interfaces of software or machines that we don't use and feel confused, but this feeling doesn't mean very much, in my opinion. I remember being mystified by car dashboards as child. Since I learned to drive, I never think twice about them, and I drive different cars and trucks often. Command-line interfaces are not suitable for usage by "non-technical users" anyways; they demand a GUI. Most of us are comfortable on the command-line, but we should not forget that we are in an extremely small minority. It would be great if everyone could learn to use their computers with the command-line, which offers great power and flexibility, but it's not a realistic goal, especially as new computer users eschew "real" computers in favor of mobile phones. So, I'm wary of sacrificing a flexible and powerful CLI on behalf of users who really will never use a CLI. Now, I'm not saying there is nothing to improve. Rather, I'm saying that the existing Guix CLI is pretty good, and we should be careful about changing it. --aPdhxNJGSeOG9wFI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEsFFZSPHn08G5gDigJkb6MLrKfwgFAlkrIxcACgkQJkb6MLrK fwgiaQ/+MlDwZWbmLHiKKx2tI7M6cDFHnbJMho0q69PS1ss99UxfATRArufrmPHT oNRYdFjtIIGgRONUyAvTLCrz4VyaNir8vX0fm5qmc0WCLWmJWG0EEhLBt9vKPx7l 4TjVJavcK/R7gXnTzqFi5uFKOJVorItjk3q+MdJh4WteeW2tj9CsSCPGXNMUhdaZ qsPXD7KudM0sCzwgx8XPVzNIXsT7L4+TQzkerJ1IvWQc8BFu07FMXmgIVVvkj18L GjmGydJa5mgUmZ0Tre6V2mfwyN5M/Expfy2bTONDPVLo5Q1YvPg/ZsfNe9MWk4al eXcCqaKsi10/qQ2kysmDcgkB/YXA6f3Z0ZHHhFYYThXdzwk4Pn5VJsrnQjyWg65M mNNYMbYcxRoQgSH9eEzIwRrvE/22g/WFbidBz5NWRWyLO42L7rX2xhO0eKzlUPKt 7C+YTHCaLY60Y8W6awvqNsmmED218yQZMfqmVd+hlgK8pvxJz32aew9bMdcE0Q0K KXoXlrDlFI8l2ax1x5eC3akOLXVOK09EOteFRxyWKFpbNTDeaohDEHVVay/E1bmG C2e1m8Xs9JffzoLQMLcACFpTV5E+8nUB8EEYTuVVjh1p/hQofYW6QocSOxxcyoPr 3iGi3X7o2LNn453hj4c9cJ3cKBQWT67j2F1xRcv7cprR5r3lQTU= =bTzh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aPdhxNJGSeOG9wFI--