From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Darrington Subject: Re: Being excellent to one another Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 07:36:19 +0100 Message-ID: <20170320063619.GA20517@jocasta.intra> References: <87r3284x8s.fsf@lassieur.org> <87h92t1qts.fsf@gnu.org> <20170316204527.lnkgc2vot4uqk633@abyayala> <20170317053620.GA16076@jocasta.intra> <20170317162131.GA4354@jasmine> <20170317175802.GB30584@jocasta.intra> <20170318110952.xhhobwl5ep4mlbpj@abyayala> <878to27laf.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87inn499gk.fsf@dustycloud.org> <20170319195707.175eb056@khaalida> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="17pEHd4RhPHOinZp" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40739) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cpqvc-0006TN-DV for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:36:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cpqvY-0000n5-Pu for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:36:28 -0400 Received: from de.cellform.com ([88.217.224.109]:33075 helo=jocasta.intra) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cpqvY-0000jX-Bm for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:36:24 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170319195707.175eb056@khaalida> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: dian_cecht@zoho.com Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 07:57:07PM -0700, dian_cecht@zoho.com wrote: On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:40:27 -0500 Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > The important thing is to not assume someone's preferred pronouns > without knowing them. Singular they isn't your only option; I also > happen to like Spivak pronouns: >=20 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun =20 The problem here is that I'd be suprised if many people have even heard about these. I used to play MUDs quite a bit and have /never/ heard any of those. They are certainly not a part of common usage, and I'd say should be avoided for something more standard (them et al). It's a nice idea, but overall seems like it would cause confusion, and probably more than a few "Hey, there is a typo in the manual"-type bugs than anything. At least, if I picked up a random bit of documentation and saw things like "e" used constantly, I'd assume it was a typo and not some archaic gender-neutral pronoun. I tend to agree. These invented aspects of language are kindof fun for=20 informal use but out of place in a user manual. In a manual we should stick to proper English - put yourself in the position of a person who is learning English as a second language. That person has spent months attending language school and is starting to become confident then picks up a manual and sees the words "pis" and "per". It's enough to throw you off your stride. (I remember something similar happening to me when learning a foriegn language: I started reading a novel, and there was lots of dialog= ue all in regional dialect. I felt like giving up.) Fortunately in a user manual one very rarely needs a personal *definite* pr= onoun. In GNU manuals, the long standing practise is to refer to the person using = the=20 program, as "you". Occasionally a personal *indefinite* pronoun is called = for and luckily in English we have a perfect gender neutral one, viz: "one". Some authors religiously avoid the whole issue altogether by writing every= =20 sentence in the passive voice - but that makes the manual extremely hard to= =20 understand even for very patient readers. When writing texts, such as this email, and absolutely *have* to use a per= sonal definite pronoun, I default to "she" because whereas vigilantes will pounce= upon you whenever they see "he" (ironically those people are invariably male), I= 've=20 never had anyone complain when "she" occurs where the gender of the subject= =20 might well be masculine. =2E.. and yes. If an individual specifically requests to be referred to by a partcular set of pronouns I will attempt to do so, but may occasionally forget if that person wants feminine pronouns and is 6'4" and has an enormo= us black wiry beard. J' =20 --=20 Avoid eavesdropping. Send strong encrypted email. PGP Public key ID: 1024D/2DE827B3=20 fingerprint =3D 8797 A26D 0854 2EAB 0285 A290 8A67 719C 2DE8 27B3 See http://sks-keyservers.net or any PGP keyserver for public key. --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAljPeGMACgkQimdxnC3oJ7NAzACeO5+yGDDOJd25NhwmhhlaxwfF Du4AnRSGOMrEnZkvdQ9R669AuUBGjdiH =qz1M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp--