Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[ng0]

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After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.

Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
users will notice through an package update and not a
comment on it?

--
♥Ⓐ ng0
For non-prism friendly talk find me on
psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

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Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Leo Famulari]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> 
> Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> users will notice through an package update and not a
> comment on it?

How do you recommend we point it out?

Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.

Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[ng0]

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On 2016-06-10(10:39:49-0400), Leo Famulari wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> > After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> > OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> >
> > Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> > also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> > should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> > OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> > users will notice through an package update and not a
> > comment on it?
>
> How do you recommend we point it out?
>
> Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.
>

OpenGFX looks rather small, so I'll try to do it soon.

(description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of Transport
Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer mode,
internationalization support, conditional orders and the ability to clone,
autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.")

What about something like:

(description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of Transport
Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer mode,
internationalization support, conditional orders and the ability to clone,
autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.  This package only includes the base
of the game, when you start it you will be prompted to download graphics
and sounds.")


--
♥Ⓐ ng0
For non-prism friendly talk find me on
psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

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Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Albin]

Den Sat, 11 Jun 2016 07:48:59 +0000
skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
description?:

> On 2016-06-10(10:39:49-0400), Leo Famulari wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:  
> > > After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> > > OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> > >
> > > Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> > > also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> > > should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> > > OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> > > users will notice through an package update and not a
> > > comment on it?  
> >
> > How do you recommend we point it out?
> >
> > Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.
> >  
> 
> OpenGFX looks rather small, so I'll try to do it soon.
> 
> (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer
> mode, internationalization support, conditional orders and the
> ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.")
> 
> What about something like:
> 
> (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer
> mode, internationalization support, conditional orders and the
> ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.  This package
> only includes the base of the game, when you start it you will be
> prompted to download graphics and sounds.")
> 

I believe this would be more correct:

"This package only includes the game engine.  When you start
it you will be prompted to download a graphics set."

But, of course, the best would be to package opengfx.

By the way, the sound effects are not free since only non-commercial
redistribution is permitted.


> 
> --
> ♥Ⓐ ng0
> For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

Albin

Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[ng0]

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On 2016-06-12(03:21:29+0200), Albin wrote:
> Den Sat, 11 Jun 2016 07:48:59 +0000
> skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
> description?:
>
> > On 2016-06-10(10:39:49-0400), Leo Famulari wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> > > > After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> > > > OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> > > >
> > > > Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> > > > also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> > > > should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> > > > OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> > > > users will notice through an package update and not a
> > > > comment on it?
> > >
> > > How do you recommend we point it out?
> > >
> > > Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.
> > >
> >
> > OpenGFX looks rather small, so I'll try to do it soon.
> >
> > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer
> > mode, internationalization support, conditional orders and the
> > ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.")
> >
> > What about something like:
> >
> > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including multiplayer
> > mode, internationalization support, conditional orders and the
> > ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate vehicles.  This package
> > only includes the base of the game, when you start it you will be
> > prompted to download graphics and sounds.")
> >
>
> I believe this would be more correct:
>
> "This package only includes the game engine.  When you start
> it you will be prompted to download a graphics set."

Looks good to me, can you create a patch for it?

> But, of course, the best would be to package opengfx.
>
> By the way, the sound effects are not free since only non-commercial
> redistribution is permitted.

Yes, but as the licenses are in the details of the in-game download
manager I think it's enough to mention the start blocker (gfx), you
could theoretically just run it without sounds or create your own
soundpack and use it (same for gfx).
>
> >
> > --
> > ♥Ⓐ ng0
> > For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> > psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion
>
> Albin

--
♥Ⓐ ng0
For non-prism friendly talk find me on
psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

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Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Albin]

Den Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:50:19 +0000
skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
description?:

> On 2016-06-12(03:21:29+0200), Albin wrote:
> > Den Sat, 11 Jun 2016 07:48:59 +0000
> > skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
> > description?:
> >  
> > > On 2016-06-10(10:39:49-0400), Leo Famulari wrote:  
> > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:  
> > > > > After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> > > > > OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> > > > > also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> > > > > should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> > > > > OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> > > > > users will notice through an package update and not a
> > > > > comment on it?  
> > > >
> > > > How do you recommend we point it out?
> > > >
> > > > Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.
> > > >  
> > >
> > > OpenGFX looks rather small, so I'll try to do it soon.
> > >
> > > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including
> > > multiplayer mode, internationalization support, conditional
> > > orders and the ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate
> > > vehicles.")
> > >
> > > What about something like:
> > >
> > > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including
> > > multiplayer mode, internationalization support, conditional
> > > orders and the ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate
> > > vehicles.  This package only includes the base of the game, when
> > > you start it you will be prompted to download graphics and
> > > sounds.") 
> >
> > I believe this would be more correct:
> >
> > "This package only includes the game engine.  When you start
> > it you will be prompted to download a graphics set."  
> 
> Looks good to me, can you create a patch for it?

IMHO, this is unnecessary work if opengfx is to be added any time
soon, but if you want, feel free to use my formulation above.

> 
> > But, of course, the best would be to package opengfx.
> >
> > By the way, the sound effects are not free since only non-commercial
> > redistribution is permitted.  
> 
> Yes, but as the licenses are in the details of the in-game download
> manager I think it's enough to mention the start blocker (gfx), you
> could theoretically just run it without sounds or create your own
> soundpack and use it (same for gfx).

After I packaged openttd we had a discussion about this
and I then suggested that opengfx + openmsx (a GPLv2 licensed music
set) might be enough for a good user experience.  An unfortunate
fact about the in-game downloader is that it only displays the
license *after* you have downloaded a particular package.  So far, I
have not seen any examples of proprietary software, but a few cases of
non-free (nc) non-functional data.  I will ask upstream if they have a
policy regarding what may be included there.

Albin

> >  
> > >
> > > --
> > > ♥Ⓐ ng0
> > > For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> > > psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion  
> >
> > Albin  
> 
> --
> ♥Ⓐ ng0
> For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion

Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Albin]

Den Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:16:05 +0200
skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
description?:

> Den Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:50:19 +0000
> skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
> description?:
> 
> > On 2016-06-12(03:21:29+0200), Albin wrote:  
> > > Den Sat, 11 Jun 2016 07:48:59 +0000
> > > skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
> > > description?:
> > >    
> > > > On 2016-06-10(10:39:49-0400), Leo Famulari wrote:    
> > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 01:02:18AM +0000, ng0 wrote:    
> > > > > > After installing OpenTTD, the game asks for a download of
> > > > > > OpenGFX (GPL2 licensed) which can be done in application.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now this is not the way this is handled usually, and it is
> > > > > > also stated in a comment in the package (games.scm:1926),
> > > > > > should we - even if it is just temporarily - point out that
> > > > > > OpenGFX is not included, or should it just be added and
> > > > > > users will notice through an package update and not a
> > > > > > comment on it?    
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you recommend we point it out?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, the best solution is to package OpenGFX.
> > > > >    
> > > >
> > > > OpenGFX looks rather small, so I'll try to do it soon.
> > > >
> > > > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > > > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > > > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including
> > > > multiplayer mode, internationalization support, conditional
> > > > orders and the ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate
> > > > vehicles.")
> > > >
> > > > What about something like:
> > > >
> > > > (description "OpenTTD is a game in which you transport goods and
> > > > passengers by land, water and air.  It is a re-implementation of
> > > > Transport Tycoon Deluxe with many enhancements including
> > > > multiplayer mode, internationalization support, conditional
> > > > orders and the ability to clone, autoreplace and autoupdate
> > > > vehicles.  This package only includes the base of the game, when
> > > > you start it you will be prompted to download graphics and
> > > > sounds.")   
> > >
> > > I believe this would be more correct:
> > >
> > > "This package only includes the game engine.  When you start
> > > it you will be prompted to download a graphics set."    
> > 
> > Looks good to me, can you create a patch for it?  
> 
> IMHO, this is unnecessary work if opengfx is to be added any time
> soon, but if you want, feel free to use my formulation above.
> 
> >   
> > > But, of course, the best would be to package opengfx.
> > >
> > > By the way, the sound effects are not free since only
> > > non-commercial redistribution is permitted.    
> > 
> > Yes, but as the licenses are in the details of the in-game download
> > manager I think it's enough to mention the start blocker (gfx), you
> > could theoretically just run it without sounds or create your own
> > soundpack and use it (same for gfx).  
> 
> After I packaged openttd we had a discussion about this
> and I then suggested that opengfx + openmsx (a GPLv2 licensed music
> set) might be enough for a good user experience.  An unfortunate
> fact about the in-game downloader is that it only displays the
> license *after* you have downloaded a particular package.  So far, I
> have not seen any examples of proprietary software, but a few cases of
> non-free (nc) non-functional data.  I will ask upstream if they have a
> policy regarding what may be included there.
> 
> Albin

Hi,

I have now received a reply from an OpenTTD developer.

> the in-game content-downloader is a pure distribution platform.
> It does not enforce any licence terms onto the content.
> 
> There are terms of service
> ( http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ ) for it, but they are
> just a minimal set of rights which allow running the primary
> distribution via the in-game content.
> 
> After the download, it is all up to the licence included in the
> download. In particular there is no requirement for content being
> redistributable or even usable.
> 
> As you mention, there is currently no option to see the licence before
> downloading the content, in particular also not for custom licences.
> Furthermore there is no in-game GUI method to delete content once
> downloaded (you have to use a file browser or console or similar).

As you can see, this content downloader is rather problematic. What
do you think we should do about it?

Albin

> 
> > >    
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ♥Ⓐ ng0
> > > > For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> > > > psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion    
> > >
> > > Albin    
> > 
> > --
> > ♥Ⓐ ng0
> > For non-prism friendly talk find me on
> > psyced.org / loupsycedyglgamf.onion  
> 
> 

Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Leo Famulari]

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 03:21:29PM +0200, Albin wrote:
> By the way, the sound effects are not free since only non-commercial
> redistribution is permitted.

Can you give a link?

Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in description?

[Albin]

Den Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:12:22 -0400
skrev Re: Openttd - mention todo/integration status of OpenGFX in
description?:

> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 03:21:29PM +0200, Albin wrote:
> > By the way, the sound effects are not free since only non-commercial
> > redistribution is permitted.  
> 
> Can you give a link?

I can give you three :)

The sound effects are under the Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0
License:
https://hg.openttdcoop.org/opensfx/files/e6df46fe264197f41233f080b779ce1d40714c0d/src/opensfx.sfo

Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0:
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/sampling+/1.0/

Discussion in the opensfx bug tracker about relicensing to GPLv2 (with
the last post from six years ago):
http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1364

Albin