From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id GGHrGCjuWGCcRAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id oADDFCjuWGCeMQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C353521785 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 20:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48132 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOQ6w-0000SA-LR for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 15:21:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50740) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOh2-00039p-4A for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:50:20 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:45108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOgx-0000EE-4v for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:50:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E52D57985; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:50:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jhij7629_oMN; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:50:09 +0100 (CET) To: raingloom , "guix-devel@gnu.org" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1616435409; bh=tvJI5Ys+YKN9X4e8gMIHs8WdZC2YPTXGSpVz0q6eRrY=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=faaXZqdqwzBLtrjc8Y9DnBzBc5ng8NdRztBNJIakZpOW5NyATyqXCPGj28Apa1y1I FHpbBzktaffpgB1hCQ9CiRPwuM4McIwGgjKtLRlM71nnU45DZY/JoJdXXeLLVYc3at Cw/+jbHxcuju7reWOQvVcH0BoUfOpfuzwQLRSi6PVHO70SWZtntru3sSXWkSYMnwqO IGd2rLUWgcspk7oou4nD8MLcA121h0U0sHVeAPDxYhLuiv2TICIIVEaFE/zKfDKf3D Uc3dgeZs7iIED/zw4XhQZzR9acGd+/6Y9Hf6PrIwBP4RFTTBQbEw5lzXdky0rdzCTD IGv3adX9CqG0Q== References: <20210322144210.1aa813e0@riseup.net> From: Martin Subject: Re: A Critique of Shepherd Design Message-ID: <1dd3ae97-3348-7948-d22a-f83bbc9e0c43@disroot.org> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:50:09 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210322144210.1aa813e0@riseup.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=smartin@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 15:18:06 -0400 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1616440872; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=l9YjyRZn5wZNZR7y1+wWfOnFM53uw4a9fAlj5ZW7bAo=; b=LtaqMt7z939Kot4pSvu2smZxmn4Y5v5MBuOSVkVPnt3sMZBuW5jAi4ltKcjWOm/W6m2u2D guzbe66EOSQm0eKSPDaGryGB8zUrg1f5n2dU0hYZ2oQ1KcnEGPfow8taqBiG7Voqk+vfJG NMRzD4WXIiJyh3sZbhTLsy6+nOxMO23uw3l5JTfegif1idAAXSQ+aFx44PGI2ZeyQJx3ub B48ROx0HCzwti+yWVzzEhkmUK4t/ZwCU1XfzIMFagjl2qJhxsHUqQYF4ewvWrGPTQGmNCC RKUnztKmC4n8gMdAaUZwRyF+rlYiTj6L7PNRfwszcNiUtyMIwH4S+3A+LwgtkQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1616440872; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JzRB8JgQ8J+8ASsb8a6q/6Zrhlv1aRMbjV2UZZN+soVbu7tFcG5kCIZ4l+hOKeeLPo/7RR IlhLYdjJM1G47bDxv7wm+/6xEf9Ac5zpDF3NAMtBSCy5BlbQP8xvjqlxF8E76h/ehqWw3o lPmE1ikzEK+lO2Ob4taYn5qfk9UnBTCHtvmE+WUDETW/E9EtaKHvDiVimOHly4ZbUSYtp7 fp0f35dp5Ne0UDNj3H9VaxSl+Hnn/daQQfp+azm8w3N3Rc4tSvGnba/xnVG/PHGXZcaRHv 4dqpAWBb2bl1wUOr7Uzp/g9WrCzAAcLxaqbGQeByag7XJajxVqwyhiXpsVvSrg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=disroot.org header.s=mail header.b=faaXZqdq; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=disroot.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.62 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=disroot.org header.s=mail header.b=faaXZqdq; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=disroot.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C353521785 X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 4NdCeHJV8Buf > On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:33:57 +0000 > raid5atemyhomework wrote: > >> The Shepherd language for describing actions on Shepherd daemons is a >> Turing-complete Guile language. Turing completeness runs afoul of >> the Principle of Least Power. > Erlang is turing complete and yet it is famously excellent at managing > services in a robust way. > Ironically nowadays almost everything is Turing complete:=20 https://www.gwern.net/Turing-complete Lack of Turing-completeness by design can be a real feature, i.e.=20 bitcoin script is a perfect practical example of it.