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Sat, 13 Apr 2024 06:26:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1713003993; x=1713263193; bh=TR2CjZC42yml32NKbqHn84JhbwWNaENM/iwS3KNeuNw=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=uL2O0sN2sLh8li28iJ4UhG9yfhfLUPsRRkiz/pdJgPtMyr3Tj+b6BFZRj09fvYXFU Xig/9x0jz7nzCHP0pDaSaHs7yKQIzXyrVuyLvQs12Nzqzv9ILJKWyVpUeGTerJQ3LQ A6jiMUGXapL6Qmu7CRduVLyJ2ihqL+XzztEfHY7zwV84kHnuZ5Gn3r4/GJgqMmJDcM SERti8ndVGldw33YRQ2Blk8VIo7xVPDJ8uFKX05DjB99dPU9B9pLajnAXC3Ja1jDgC +m/CdkqQZwp1lnGIILORqU2aXPSbQSeCU1VyY08hgATv1gL/ap1mZ09RnjkUK6hfyf NJ1GOQZaGCVQg== Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 10:26:27 +0000 To: Giovanni Biscuolo , Andreas Enge , Ekaitz Zarraga From: Skyler Ferris Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= , Attila Lendvai , Guix Devel Subject: Re: backdoor injection via release tarballs combined with binary artifacts (was Re: Backdoor in upstream xz-utils) Message-ID: <1c6f4d74-fad5-49ad-b29e-2b02c2418c10@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87y19hiwng.fsf@xelera.eu> References: <87ttkon4c4.fsf@protonmail.com> <87zfu9ku4l.fsf@xelera.eu> <6e743725-26f0-669c-b088-e56c850110c8@elenq.tech> <87wmp5l3r3.fsf@gnu.org> <8076578a-bebd-0f26-6d39-f634ded290ce@elenq.tech> <87y19hiwng.fsf@xelera.eu> Feedback-ID: 40635331:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.76 X-Spam-Score: -9.76 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 218B3628F3 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: CWXXXWfKiMc8 Hi again, On 4/12/24 23:50, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > Hello, > > general reminder: please remember the specific scope of this (sub)thread > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > > Please consider that this (sub)thread is _not_ specific to xz-utils but > to the specific attack vector (matrix?) used to inject a backdoor in a > binary during a build phase, in a _very_ stealthy way. > > Also, since Guix _is_ downstream, I'd like this (sub)thread to > concentrate on what *Guix* can/should do to strenghten the build proces= s > /independently/ of what upstreams (or other distributions) can/should > do. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > (https://yhetil.org/guix/8734s1mn5p.fsf@xelera.eu/) > > ...and if needed read that message again to understand the context, > please. > > I assume that this was an indirect response to the email I sent=20 previously where I discussed the problems with PGP signatures on release=20 files. I believe that this was in scope because of the discussion about=20 whether to use VCS checkouts which lack signatures or release tarballs=20 which have signatures. If the signatures on the release tarballs are not=20 providing us with additional confidence then we are not losing anything=20 by switching to the VCS checkout. Analysis of the effectiveness of what=20 upstream projects are doing is relevant when trying to determine what we=20 are capable of doing. I also pointed out that a change to Guix such as=20 adding signature metadata to packages could help make up for problems=20 with upstream workflows and how the review process provides additional=20 confidence, demonstrating how this analysis is relevant to what to=20 currently/could possibly do. Please let me know if you think that this=20 is incorrect. Additionally, I need to correct something that I previously said. I=20 stated this: On 4/12/24 17:14, Skyler Ferris wrote: > even the tails project gets this part of security wrong and they are gene= rally diligent in their efforts Without first double-checking the current state of the project. While=20 this was true at one point, they have since updated their website and=20 clearly explain the problem and what their new verification method is=20 able to protect against at=20 https://tails.net/contribute/design/download_verification/. I apologize=20 for disseminating outdated information.