Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt <matt@excalamus.com>]

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 ---- On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 22:44:18 -0500 Matt <matt@excalamus.com> wrote ----
 > 
 >  ---- On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:18:42 -0500 Matt <matt@excalamus.com> wrote ----
 > 
 >  > I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is great steno practice!

I'm (finally) done!

There were some things he said that I couldn't understand. I notated all of them using square brackets and three question marks, [like this???]. You should be able to search on "???" to find them. 

It was an interesting talk with good points and some smart ideas.  I'm happy to have been able to make it more accessible to others.  :)

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Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Good morning, I'm really pleased
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.00,0:00:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to be speaking at Guix Days.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.00,0:00:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,My talk today is about
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.00,0:00:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,improving our patch review and
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.00,0:00:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,my hopes for what it could be and
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.00,0:00:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,how it could be a lot better.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.00,0:00:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Let's get right in.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.00,0:00:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So first, a little about
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.00,0:00:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,me.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.00,0:00:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,My name is Arun. I've been a
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.00,0:00:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Guix contributor since 2016
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.00,0:00:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and a committor
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.00,0:00:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,since 2017.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.00,0:00:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Guix is what got me really interested
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.00,0:00:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in Guile. I've
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.00,0:00:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,been interested in the state of the issue
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.00,0:00:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tracker for a long, long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.00,0:00:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Since
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.00,0:00:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the sad days of the Debbugs
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.00,0:00:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,web interface before Mumi
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.00,0:00:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,even existed.  I am
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.00,0:00:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the author of guile-email and guile-[sapien???]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.00,0:00:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,both of which are
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.00,0:00:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,essential to Mumi.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.00,0:00:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So the story is that
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.00,0:00:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So the story is that
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.00,0:00:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I was... So, before Mumi,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.00,0:00:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,existed I was writing
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.00,0:01:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a new web interface for
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.00,0:01:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Debbugs, the Debbugs tracker,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.00,0:01:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and unbeknownst to me
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.00,0:01:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Ricardo was doing the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.00,0:01:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And he
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.00,0:01:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,he had listed before
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.00,0:01:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I could.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.00,0:01:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,He listed his version before I could.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.00,0:01:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.00,0:01:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.00,0:01:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And I looked at his code
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.00,0:01:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and it turned out that his
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.00,0:01:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,web interface
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.00,0:01:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,was a lot better than mine and
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.00,0:01:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,my email [password???] was better.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.00,0:01:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, we had
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.00,0:01:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a chat and we decided that the best thing to
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.00,0:01:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,do is combine forces.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.00,0:01:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, I released
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.00,0:01:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,my email-[password???] as Guile
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.00,0:01:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,guile-email and he released his
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.00,0:01:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,issue tracker as Mumi.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.00,0:01:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.00,0:01:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that's the way it's been.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.00,0:01:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.00,0:01:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.00,0:01:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This talk
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.00,0:01:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,could not have been without
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.00,0:01:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,many, many other
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.00,0:01:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,influences. But most of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.00,0:02:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,recently I want it highlight
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.00,0:02:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a few talks and articles
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.00,0:02:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that I read recently.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.00,0:02:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I want at least to
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.00,0:02:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,point you to the first
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.00,0:02:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,talk, "Governing Rust" in the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.00,0:02:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,ninth RacketCon.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.00,0:02:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's a
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.00,0:02:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really good talk and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.00,0:02:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's extremely
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.00,0:02:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,relevant to the kind of problems that we
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.00,0:02:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,are facing in scaling up
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.00,0:02:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the Guix community.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.00,0:02:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I urge you to watch it if you
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.00,0:02:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,, haven't already.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.00,0:02:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.00,0:02:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Guix is a victim
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.00,0:02:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of its own success.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.00,0:02:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Users, contributers,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.00,0:02:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and contributions have been growing rapidly,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.00,0:02:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I suppose exponentially.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.00,0:02:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is a really good thing for
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.00,0:02:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the project, but we're not able to
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.00,0:02:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,keep up with the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.00,0:02:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,work load. That's the sad truth.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.00,0:02:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Issues are
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.00,0:02:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,falling through the cracks
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.00,0:02:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and reviewers are
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.00,0:02:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,silently
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.00,0:02:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tuning out.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.00,0:03:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,The firehose of information that
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.00,0:03:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,is the email
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.00,0:03:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,every day. That is way too much mail than
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.00,0:03:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,any single person can
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.00,0:03:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,keep track of and it's only going to get
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.00,0:03:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,worse.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.00,0:03:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But how bad it can be, just have a look at the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.00,0:03:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,(GNU/:)Linux mailing list.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.00,0:03:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.00,0:03:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Nobody can keep that [perfect???].
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.00,0:03:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.00,0:03:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,there is quite a lot of frustration about this
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.00,0:03:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,among the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.00,0:03:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,what the contributors,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.00,0:03:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewers, and pretty much anyone...
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.00,0:03:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.00,0:03:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's not really easy to see this in public because
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.00,0:03:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,people are polite
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.00,0:03:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and want to stay polite on
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.00,0:03:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the mailing list. That's a good thing!
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.00,0:03:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But in private conversations,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.00,0:03:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's pretty clear
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.00,0:03:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and evident.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.00,0:03:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, in fact that is often THE topic of
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.00,0:03:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,conversation in discussing Guix.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.00,0:03:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.00,0:03:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, let's look at the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.00,0:03:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,problem from two points of
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.00,0:03:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,view; of two
Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.00,0:03:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,stakeholders. First, the contributors point of view and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.00,0:04:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,then the reviewer's point of view.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.00,0:04:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, from the contributor's point of view
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.00,0:04:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,they want
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.00,0:04:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the reviewers to be polite and helpful.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.00,0:04:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's something Guix has done an
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.00,0:04:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,exemplary job of and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.00,0:04:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,something I'm really, really impressed
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.00,0:04:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,about the community and the reason
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.00,0:04:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I stay here. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.00,0:04:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we don't have to worry about that
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.00,0:04:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in this talk at least.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.00,0:04:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And second is
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.00,0:04:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that documentation should be available
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.00,0:04:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to, you know, understand and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.00,0:04:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,hack on the source.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.00,0:04:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I think they've done okay in this
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.00,0:04:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,regard. It's probably
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.00,0:04:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lots of scope for improvement and the subject
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.00,0:04:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of other talks in Guix Days.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.00,0:04:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But, okay, not bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.00,0:04:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Not too bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.00,0:04:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And then third:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.00,0:04:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the contributions should
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.00,0:04:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,be reviewed and accepted quickly. This is
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.00,0:04:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the real pain point and the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.00,0:04:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,subject of this talk. I think
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.00,0:04:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,speed is the most critical factor
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.00,0:04:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in capturing and sustaining interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.00,0:04:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.00,0:04:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,when a new user or a new contributor
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.00,0:05:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,comes in with a patch,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.00,0:05:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you want to be able to get back to them really
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.00,0:05:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.00,0:05:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,A day, if that's possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.00,0:05:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And certainly a week is a good
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.00,0:05:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,time to shoot for. Anything
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.00,0:05:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,more than a few weeks and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.00,0:05:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,going to the months and years is
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.00,0:05:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,terrible.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.00,0:05:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,People are extremely likely
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.00,0:05:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to lose interest and never come back.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.00,0:05:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, if we give this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.00,0:05:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,up some point, we're going to pay the price and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.00,0:05:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lose out on new
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.00,0:05:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,useful contributors and that's not good.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.00,0:05:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.00,0:05:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So what about the reviewer's
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.00,0:05:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,point of view?  Of course,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.00,0:05:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's easy to blame the regulars,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.00,0:05:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,but they also have
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.00,0:05:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,way too much work and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.00,0:05:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,can't really keep up.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.00,0:05:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, from their point of view,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.00,0:05:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it should be
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.00,0:05:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,quick and easy to
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.00,0:05:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,review and merge
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.00,0:05:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the patch.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.00,0:05:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Having lots of back and forth is not
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.00,0:05:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,desirable.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.00,0:05:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,You want to, I really want to see
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.00,0:06:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,one very
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.00,0:06:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,well-written patch
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.00,0:06:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that can be, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.00,0:06:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just merged at the click of a button, so to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.00,0:06:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.00,0:06:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And it should be easy,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.00,0:06:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,even trivial, to test these
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.00,0:06:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,patches. Sometimes when your
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.00,0:06:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,patch is involving
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.00,0:06:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,large packages
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.00,0:06:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it takes
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.00,0:06:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a really, really long time to
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.00,0:06:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,build those packages and test them.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.00,0:06:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Right, so if you're spending 10 hours
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.00,0:06:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,building a package
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.00,0:06:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and then you tweak a little bit and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.00,0:06:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a little
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.00,0:06:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,bit in the package definition and you want to try
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.00,0:06:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,building it again...then good luck with that!
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.00,0:06:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's a really long
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.00,0:06:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,edit, compile, and debug cycle.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.00,0:06:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And you can't even know ahead
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.00,0:06:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of time how long that package is going to take
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.00,0:06:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to finish building. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.00,0:06:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you probably be
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.00,0:06:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,switching buffers frequently
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.00,0:06:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and glancing back at that
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.00,0:06:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,task, even when you are
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.00,0:06:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,probably trying to do something else.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.00,0:06:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is, of course, terrible for
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.00,0:07:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,productivity and really going to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.00,0:07:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,kill your productivity.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.00,0:07:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.00,0:07:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, something needs to be
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.00,0:07:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,done about that. And then finally,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.00,0:07:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewers want to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.00,0:07:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,receive notifications only about
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.00,0:07:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,some specific subsystem that
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.00,0:07:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,they are interested in.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.00,0:07:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Nobody can keep up with all the information
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.00,0:07:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,coming through the mailing lists
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.00,0:07:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and there should be some way to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.00,0:07:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,subscribe to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.00,0:07:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,only patches of the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.00,0:07:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.00,0:07:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,huge patch inflow.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.00,0:07:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.00,0:07:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,To make it
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.00,0:07:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,quick, easy, and make it trivial. That's kind
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.00,0:07:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of the idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.00,0:07:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.00,0:07:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the first thing is to make it easy
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.00,0:07:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for contributors to produce
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.00,0:07:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,high quality patches.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.00,0:07:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, there are many slipping
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.00,0:07:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,points for the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.00,0:07:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,contributors.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.00,0:07:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And if they
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.00,0:07:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,can be made simpler,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.00,0:07:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and if contributors could produce
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.00,0:08:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,higher quality patches at the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.00,0:08:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,first attempt, they need to really
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.00,0:08:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lighten the load an the reviewers. And then
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.00,0:08:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we need to make
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.00,0:08:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it easy for the reviewers to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.00,0:08:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,do that, lighten
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.00,0:08:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the work of reviewing. So, how exactly do we
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.00,0:08:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,do that?  I have a few
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.00,0:08:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,mockups and I'll
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.00,0:08:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,try to explain with those,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.00,0:08:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,with the aid of those.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.00,0:08:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, let's look at...
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.00,0:08:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I hope you can see the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.00,0:08:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,issue tracker here.  This is
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.00,0:08:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,what Mumi normally looks like.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.00,0:08:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.00,0:08:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,We have patches listed. We have issues
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.00,0:08:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,listed here. And
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.00,0:08:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that is...
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.00,0:08:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this patch
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.00,0:08:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tag, called a patch,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.00,0:08:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and that's pretty much the only
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.00,0:08:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tag that you see here.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.00,0:08:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I believe we want something
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.00,0:08:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,more like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.00,0:08:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,You see lots of colorful tags.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.00,0:08:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, package-fix, package-update,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.00,0:08:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,new package, and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.00,0:08:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.00,0:08:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, package-fix
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.00,0:09:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,package-update, and new-package are the three most
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.00,0:09:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,common operations on a
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.00,0:09:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,package. And then you have these
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.00,0:09:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,black tags which
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.00,0:09:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tell you which subsystem that
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.00,0:09:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,, issue is about.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.00,0:09:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, gcc is in
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.00,0:09:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,commencement.scm.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.00,0:09:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Emacs packages are in
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.00,0:09:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,emacs-xyz.scm.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.00,0:09:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,There's a python-crypto package
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.00,0:09:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.00,0:09:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And actual
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.00,0:09:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,bugs in the
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.00,0:09:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,core Guix [missionary???]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.00,0:09:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,are shown using
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.00,0:09:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,these red tags.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.00,0:09:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And so on. You have a bug here and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.00,0:09:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.00,0:09:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.00,0:09:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the thing is, we have
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.00,0:09:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,two broad kinds of issues,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.00,0:09:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,ones that deal with the core of Guix
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.00,0:09:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[missionary???] and
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.00,0:09:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,others that deal with packages.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.00,0:09:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Package [???] issues
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.00,0:09:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,are never ending and
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.00,0:09:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[there are] a huge
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.00,0:09:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,number of packages and a huge number of
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.00,0:09:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.00,0:10:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Our issue tracker tends to be swamped
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.00,0:10:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,with those kind of issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.00,0:10:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's hard to find, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.00,0:10:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,bugs which are related to the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.00,0:10:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,core. You know, dig through all the issues
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.00,0:10:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,find only those that are related to
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.00,0:10:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the core of Guix's mission.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.00,0:10:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, we want, like, tags could
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.00,0:10:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really help us sort through this mess
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.00,0:10:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,quickly and
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.00,0:10:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,get people to the thing that they
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.00,0:10:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,are interested in.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.00,0:10:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.00,0:10:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And also I replaced
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.00,0:10:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the absolute date
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.00,0:10:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,here with the relative
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.00,0:10:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,date. That's a pretty easy fix,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.00,0:10:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just a one liner patch.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.00,0:10:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I'll probably send it this week to Mumi.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.00,0:10:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.00,0:10:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi already has most of the code
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.00,0:10:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.00,0:10:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.00,0:10:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.00,0:10:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, here's the next page.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.00,0:10:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is what an issue
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.00,0:10:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,normally looks like.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.00,0:10:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,You have a title
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.00,0:10:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,followed by the conversation, actually
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.00,0:10:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the email conversation, here.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.00,0:11:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.00,0:11:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,What I've added a-new is
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.00,0:11:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this section called "Summary and pointers".
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.00,0:11:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.00,0:11:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.00,0:11:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,issue conversations tend to be
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.00,0:11:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,long and often tedious, involving
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.00,0:11:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lots of details and following
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.00,0:11:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the train of thought of multiple
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.00,0:11:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,participants.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.00,0:11:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Someone looking
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.00,0:11:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,at the issue should not have to dig
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.00,0:11:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,through the whole thing to understand what it's about.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.00,0:11:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.00,0:11:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It would be helpful if
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.00,0:11:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,someone, one of the participants or someone else,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.00,0:11:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.00,0:11:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.00,0:11:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,put in a summary
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.00,0:11:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[of the problem], summarized the problem and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.00,0:11:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.00,0:11:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,suggested a good way
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.00,0:11:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to fix the problem. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.00,0:11:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this is a great idea
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.00,0:11:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for more experienced folks
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.00,0:11:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to do because
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.00,0:11:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we want experienced folks to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.00,0:11:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,be doing the kind of thing that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.00,0:11:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,no one else can do.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.00,0:11:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.00,0:12:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,if they were to...
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.00,0:12:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,We don't really want
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.00,0:12:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,them to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.00,0:12:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,code too much and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.00,0:12:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,get in all the nitty-gritty of
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.00,0:12:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,all those packages out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.00,0:12:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Rather, if they could
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.00,0:12:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,write out these detailed instructions
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.00,0:12:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to people,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.00,0:12:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,instructions in every bug report
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.00,0:12:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,explaining what to do, how to fix the issue
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.00,0:12:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and where to fix the issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.00,0:12:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Maybe with examples, clear examples.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.00,0:12:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Some really well written...
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.00,0:12:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,...a few paragraphs.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.00,0:12:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That would be of immense help to others.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.00,0:12:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,New contributors could
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.00,0:12:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,learn from them and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.00,0:12:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.00,0:12:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and they might themselves become
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.00,0:12:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,more experienced
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.00,0:12:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,contributors quickly.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.00,0:12:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.00,0:12:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's one addition.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.00,0:12:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Another [connotation???] here then
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.00,0:12:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a patch here. And
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.00,0:12:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,then you have two little check boxes,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.00,0:12:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,two little tick marks.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.00,0:12:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, you want...
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.00,0:12:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,as soon as a patch comes in we want
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.00,0:13:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lint tests to be
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.00,0:13:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,, automatically run and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.00,0:13:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,also the package,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.00,0:13:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in order to be rebuilt in the CI (continuous integration)
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.00,0:13:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and then we want
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.00,0:13:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,little check marks like this which
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.00,0:13:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,come up and indicate that it passed
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.00,0:13:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,correctly. I believe
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.00,0:13:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Guix
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.00,0:13:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,data service is supposed to do something like this
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.00,0:13:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and I believe that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.00,0:13:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Chris Baines has been...
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.00,0:13:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,has a patch work instance
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.00,0:13:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that indicates the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.00,0:13:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,status of each patch.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.00,0:13:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I haven't looked at it very
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.00,0:13:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,closely, to be honest.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.00,0:13:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.00,0:13:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I believe we want
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.00,0:13:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that kind of information to be integrated into
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.00,0:13:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi itself. We don't want that to be
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.00,0:13:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,available on a separate,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.00,0:13:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, separate period, a completely
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.00,0:13:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,different interface and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.00,0:13:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.00,0:13:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's one... and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.00,0:13:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Then finally, review check lists.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.00,0:13:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, as much as possible, the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.00,0:13:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.00,0:13:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the review process, the tests have to be automated.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.00,0:14:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Well, of course, everything cannot be automated.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.00,0:14:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.00,0:14:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for those tasks that can not be automated,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.00,0:14:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we should have a check list.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.00,0:14:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, review is largely about
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.00,0:14:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,looking at
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.00,0:14:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,lots of tiny things and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.00,0:14:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's pretty easy to forget the kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.00,0:14:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.00,0:14:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,all the points that you have
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.00,0:14:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to check. So, it's nice
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.00,0:14:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to have a check list. In fact, this is the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.00,0:14:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,exact check list that I
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.00,0:14:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,use personally when I'm reviewing a
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.00,0:14:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,patch.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.00,0:14:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I have this in an Org mode file and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.00,0:14:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I just go... I run
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.00,0:14:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,through the check list one point
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.00,0:14:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,at a time.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.00,0:14:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It would be nice if
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.00,0:14:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this kind of check list got standardized and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.00,0:14:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,available to everybody so that we could
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.00,0:14:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just...anybody could just,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.00,0:14:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, run through it and...
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.00,0:14:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,We would have a standardized process
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.00,0:14:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for all
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.00,0:14:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewers to implement.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.00,0:14:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And they can have some
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.00,0:14:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,confidence that they are doing the right thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.00,0:14:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And often we find the same
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.00,0:15:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,kind of mistakes in every,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.00,0:15:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in many different patches.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.00,0:15:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[indistiguishable???]
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.00,0:15:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Really similar responses to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.00,0:15:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, what
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.00,0:15:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,if you could just have some check boxes and,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.00,0:15:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, if the tests are not packaged
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.00,0:15:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and check that.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.00,0:15:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Something wrong with the indentation?  Check that.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.00,0:15:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And then just
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.00,0:15:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,"Report failing checklist items"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.00,0:15:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,some kind of template mail goes to the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.00,0:15:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,goes to the issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.00,0:15:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That would be pretty
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.00,0:15:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,convenient, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.00,0:15:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.00,0:15:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, the...
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.00,0:15:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,One point I'd like to make about the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.00,0:15:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tooling is that...
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.00,0:15:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.00,0:15:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, as long time
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.00,0:15:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,hackers on this
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.00,0:15:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,project, we tend to accumulate
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.00,0:15:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a bag of tricks, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.00,0:15:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, for example, how do you
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.00,0:15:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.00,0:15:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,apply a patch from a mailbox
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.00,0:15:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,from the convenience of your mail client
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.00,0:15:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,directly to the Guix git repository?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.00,0:15:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, for a long time I
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.00,0:16:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,didn't know that.  I didn't know how to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.00,0:16:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And then I hacked
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.00,0:16:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,up some [???],
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.00,0:16:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,integrating Notmuch and
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.00,0:16:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,magit and all that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.00,0:16:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.00,0:16:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,but no one should have to,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.00,0:16:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,like, hack up this kind of stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.00,0:16:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and reinvent the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.00,0:16:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,wheel on this. We should
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.00,0:16:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,have a standardized
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.00,0:16:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and regularized tooling that
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.00,0:16:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,anybody can
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.00,0:16:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just start using without
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.00,0:16:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,having to reinvent.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.00,0:16:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, that's idea of tooling.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.00,0:16:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Now let's go on
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.00,0:16:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to the shell where I have some...
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.00,0:16:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,one more mock-up.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.00,0:16:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.00,0:16:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you see this
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.00,0:16:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,package here? I have this package
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.00,0:16:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,called "borgmatic" here.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:45.00,0:16:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It has a couple of linter errors.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.00,0:16:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Let's see how
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.00,0:16:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we normally report them.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.00,0:16:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.00,0:16:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,let's `./mockup guix lint`
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.00,0:16:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is normally how
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.00,0:16:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,`guix lint` reports
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.00,0:17:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,linter errors.  So, there's
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.00,0:17:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a filename, line number, column
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.00,0:17:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,number, package name, package version,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.00,0:17:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and then some textual description
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.00,0:17:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of the error, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.00,0:17:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,There are two linter errors for this
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.00,0:17:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,case.  What I propose is
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.00,0:17:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,something more like this:
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.00,0:17:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Something
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.00,0:17:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,much more detailed, colorful, and
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.00,0:17:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,most importantly,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.00,0:17:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it has
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.00,0:17:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the in-context
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.00,0:17:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,source of the error. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.00,0:17:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,The first error is about
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.00,0:17:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,missing double spaces.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.00,0:17:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.00,0:17:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,here you see in the context of the source code
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.00,0:17:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,exactly where the double space is missing.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.00,0:17:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.00,0:17:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is, of course, far better than having to say
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.00,0:17:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,possible infraction at 86.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.00,0:17:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,possible infraction at 86.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.00,0:17:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Here, I don't
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.00,0:17:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,believe anybody really counts
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.00,0:17:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,up to distinct position 86 and finds sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.00,0:17:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that the... missing
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.00,0:17:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,double spaces are, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.00,0:17:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's crazy.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.00,0:17:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, if you could...
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.00,0:18:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Like, iron
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.00,0:18:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this out and
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.00,0:18:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,exactly show where the error is would be far better.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.00,0:18:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.00,0:18:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And the second part
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.00,0:18:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of this is this line in magenta.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.00,0:18:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That is the rationale for this rule.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.00,0:18:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.00,0:18:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Humans really like to understand
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.00,0:18:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,why we have to follow all these rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.00,0:18:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's frustrating to follow rules that we do not
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.00,0:18:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,know why we are following.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.00,0:18:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, for a long time, until recently
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.00,0:18:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I didn't know why we needed to
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.00,0:18:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,add two spaces,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.00,0:18:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.00,0:18:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, after a full stop,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.00,0:18:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,after a period.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.00,0:18:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And it turns out
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.00,0:18:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's because we need the...
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.00,0:18:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it is great for Emacs and [text commands???]
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.00,0:18:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to work, right? So, it
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.00,0:18:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,will be
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.00,0:18:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really good if this kind of rationale were
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.00,0:18:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,put there so that people can
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.00,0:18:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,understand. And...
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.00,0:18:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Even though I did not know this
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.00,0:18:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for a long time, even though I did not know
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.00,0:18:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,why we have this rule for a long time, I
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.00,0:18:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.00,0:19:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I never wanted to ask about this because it sounded
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.00,0:19:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,like a stupid question which people should not have to ask,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.00,0:19:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,right? And that's exactly what
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.00,0:19:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,new users are going to do. They're not going to ask you
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.00,0:19:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,these questions. They're just going to
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.00,0:19:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,maybe be bad with it or
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.00,0:19:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,they're probably going to be done [indistinguishable???] or something.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.00,0:19:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Alright, so we want this rationale there
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.00,0:19:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,definitely.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.00,0:19:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And the second
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.00,0:19:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that I'm going to say just about
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.00,0:19:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,check face
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.00,0:19:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,not respecting tests.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.00,0:19:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, in the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.00,0:19:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,context source, you see exactly the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.00,0:19:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,fix that is needed to
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.00,0:19:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,address this linter error.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.00,0:19:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,That's nice.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.00,0:19:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, it might seem that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.00,0:19:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that this tooling
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.00,0:19:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,definitely needed to create this kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.00,0:19:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tooling would be too much.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.00,0:19:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.00,0:19:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I think it'll [certain a lot of saving???]
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.00,0:19:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,saving of user
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.00,0:19:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,frustration and also of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.00,0:19:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewer time. So, if the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.00,0:19:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,contributors have...are producing 
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.00,0:19:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,high quality patches without
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.00,0:19:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.00,0:20:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,any errors... there's...that'll
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.00,0:20:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,already save a great deal of time for the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.00,0:20:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewers and is really good for the project.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.00,0:20:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.00,0:20:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, back to the slides.  So, quick
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.00,0:20:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,recap of the mock-up that I showed:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.00,0:20:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,colorful tags, guidance
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.00,0:20:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and mentoring from experienced folks,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.00,0:20:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,more automated
Dialogue: 0,0:20:17.00,0:20:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,review, and then
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.00,0:20:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,checklists for tasks
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.00,0:20:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for review tasks that cannot be automated
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.00,0:20:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and [then lint error messages???].
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.00,0:20:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.00,0:20:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, to the second part of the talk, I believe
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.00,0:20:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that our review
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.00,0:20:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,model is broken.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.00,0:20:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.00,0:20:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,normally we have one contributor
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.00,0:20:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,who comes with a patch and
Dialogue: 0,0:20:39.00,0:20:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,one reviewer who interacts with them
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.00,0:20:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.00,0:20:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.00,0:20:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,there's a lot of back and forth that goes in and finally
Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.00,0:20:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,they come down to a patch
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.00,0:20:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that can be accepted. So, usually
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.00,0:20:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,at least more often than
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.00,0:20:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,not, there is just
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.00,0:20:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a single reviewer per issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.00,0:20:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,For whatever reason,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.00,0:21:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,people don't like to barge in
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.00,0:21:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,on somebody else's issue, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.00,0:21:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It happens sometimes, I mean there's times...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.00,0:21:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's not a bad
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.00,0:21:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,thing that, you know, commenting on
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.00,0:21:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,some....on a...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.00,0:21:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,on an issue that somebody else is ready working on
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.00,0:21:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,is no a bad thing. I think it's pretty
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.00,0:21:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,good in giving a
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.00,0:21:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,second opinion to the whole process.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.00,0:21:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But more often than not we don't
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.00,0:21:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.00,0:21:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.00,0:21:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,puts a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.00,0:21:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,work and responsiblity on that single
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.00,0:21:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reviewer. And review is a pretty
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.00,0:21:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,exhausting process.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.00,0:21:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, I think we should...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.00,0:21:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I suggest that we split up
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.00,0:21:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the review process into multiple
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.00,0:21:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,phases. Let's see
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.00,0:21:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,how.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.00,0:21:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.00,0:21:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Step 1 should be the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.00,0:21:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,, triaging process.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.00,0:21:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,If we prescreen the bugs, the issues
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.00,0:21:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that come in, classify
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.00,0:21:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,them and tag them with our
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.00,0:21:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,eleven tags, maybe
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.00,0:21:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,ask for more information from the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.00,0:22:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,contributor, if necessary...
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.00,0:22:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And that's it. Triaging
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.00,0:22:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,is done. So, hopefully
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.00,0:22:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this can be done in less than
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.00,0:22:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a day so that
Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.00,0:22:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the contributors
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.00,0:22:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,get some, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.00,0:22:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,positive feedback where
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.00,0:22:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,they can feel good that they got a, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.00,0:22:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,an immediate response here. And
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.00,0:22:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a promise that their bug
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.00,0:22:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,will be addressed in some
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.00,0:22:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,time at least.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.00,0:22:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And we
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.00,0:22:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,ought to have a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.00,0:22:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a separate team
Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.00,0:22:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just for triaging. You don't
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.00,0:22:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.00,0:22:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,want them to be
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.00,0:22:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,, getting involved in
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.00,0:22:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the review process, unless they want to, of course.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.00,0:22:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, that...
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.00,0:22:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the responsiblity of the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:45.00,0:22:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,triaging team is finished as soon as
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.00,0:22:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the triaging process is complete.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.00,0:22:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,They should not have to follow up that
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.00,0:22:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,single issue all the way down to the end, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.00,0:22:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, triaging is
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.00,0:22:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really easy, anybody can do it, even
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.00,0:22:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really inexperienced
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.00,0:23:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,folks can do it pretty easily if...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.00,0:23:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,system... basic...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.00,0:23:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[assigning tickets???] type of thing, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.00,0:23:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And then we want
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.00,0:23:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the...if there's a bug
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.00,0:23:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.00,0:23:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we want the more experienced people to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.00,0:23:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,come out and
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.00,0:23:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,write instructions on
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.00,0:23:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,how to address the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.00,0:23:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,bug and, you know, maybe
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.00,0:23:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,which lines of code, which functions are relevant,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.00,0:23:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, that kind of thing. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.00,0:23:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,as far as possible, we want to do
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.00,0:23:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the kind of things that
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.00,0:23:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,nobody else can do. We don't want
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.00,0:23:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,them to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:33.00,0:23:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to be
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.00,0:23:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,doing all the grind work themselves. They should
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.00,0:23:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,also be teaching others and this is a great way.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.00,0:23:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,This is the summary paragraph
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.00,0:23:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that I read at the top of the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.00,0:23:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,mock-up. Then maybe
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.00,0:23:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the first round of review could come from a
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.00,0:23:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,non-committer?  I don't know how
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.00,0:23:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,we could motivate them to do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.00,0:23:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But, if
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.00,0:23:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[???] non-committers that
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.00,0:23:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,would be, that would take off significant
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.00,0:23:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,work from the reviewers...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.00,0:24:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,from the committer reviewers.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.00,0:24:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And it might also be a good way to 
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.00,0:24:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for us to, you know, find potential new
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.00,0:24:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,committers...
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.00,0:24:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,people who we can,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.00,0:24:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, give them a more integral
Dialogue: 0,0:24:11.00,0:24:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,part in the committing [???].
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.00,0:24:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.00,0:24:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And apart
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.00,0:24:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,from this we also need to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.00,0:24:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,broaden our idea of
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.00,0:24:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,what community means.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.00,0:24:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It's still pretty tempting to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.00,0:24:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,think of the community as just a
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.00,0:24:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.00,0:24:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,core developers and users.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.00,0:24:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I think that's a pretty bad approach, I mean
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.00,0:24:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.00,0:24:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,More and more we realize this but
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.00,0:24:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,there are still some
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.00,0:24:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,tragic hangovers from
Dialogue: 0,0:24:41.00,0:24:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.00,0:24:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,ages past, like the idea of...
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.00,0:24:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's so easy to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.00,0:24:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,only credit
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.00,0:24:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.00,0:24:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,people commit in core
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.00,0:24:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,because all they have to do is run a git log and
Dialogue: 0,0:24:55.00,0:24:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you know, a little shell pipe
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.00,0:24:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and you have a list of all contributors, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.00,0:25:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And this tends to go into the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.00,0:25:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,news reports in the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.00,0:25:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.00,0:25:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[???]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.00,0:25:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[???]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.00,0:25:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,We do it because it's an old habit
Dialogue: 0,0:25:11.00,0:25:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and it's
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.00,0:25:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,something so easy to do, you can
Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.00,0:25:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,even prefix it with the number of commits they
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.00,0:25:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,did and it looks
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.00,0:25:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,really neat.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.00,0:25:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Probably follows the power law or something, 80-20 and
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.00,0:25:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,everything.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.00,0:25:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,But it's kind of, you know...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:27.00,0:25:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it reflects an old
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.00,0:25:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,mindset that only quotas are
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.00,0:25:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,real contributors,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.00,0:25:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,right?  And that's not a good
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.00,0:25:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,thing. We should be also
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.00,0:25:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,looking at
Dialogue: 0,0:25:39.00,0:25:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,people who manage
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.00,0:25:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the community, so to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.00,0:25:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Like people who answer support requests.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:45.00,0:25:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,People who are doing triaging are probably not
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.00,0:25:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,going to be...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.00,0:25:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,involved...at all showing up
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.00,0:25:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in the git log. But they are contributors
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.00,0:25:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and essential to the community nonetheless.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.00,0:25:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And then we need toolsmiths
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.00,0:25:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,who work on tooling
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.00,0:26:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,like Mumi.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:01.00,0:26:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Again, it's not going to show up in the Guix
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.00,0:26:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,git log but
Dialogue: 0,0:26:05.00,0:26:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the associated tooling is essential for Guix to
Dialogue: 0,0:26:07.00,0:26:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,operate well.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.00,0:26:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Software communities are
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.00,0:26:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,just communities
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.00,0:26:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.00,0:26:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So whenever you put a bunch of people
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.00,0:26:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in a room, you're going to have trouble and
Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.00,0:26:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,software is no different.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:21.00,0:26:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Software
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.00,0:26:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,is about the people, it's not about the code.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.00,0:26:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.00,0:26:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,When you have the right people
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.00,0:26:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,and the right kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:26:31.00,0:26:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,organization, code will come on its own.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:33.00,0:26:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.00,0:26:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.00,0:26:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi, as you know, is 
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.00,0:26:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,our interface
Dialogue: 0,0:26:41.00,0:26:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to Debbugs.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:43.00,0:26:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.00,0:26:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,hacking on Mumi is kind of the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.00,0:26:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,point of all these mock-ups.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.00,0:26:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, the Debbugs API is
Dialogue: 0,0:26:51.00,0:26:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,terrible.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.00,0:26:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,If you never had a chance to look at it,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.00,0:26:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,you should be really happy.  :)
Dialogue: 0,0:26:57.00,0:26:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.00,0:27:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,does not expose...
Dialogue: 0,0:27:01.00,0:27:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It uses a SOAP...
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.00,0:27:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,an old XML
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.00,0:27:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,a remote
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.00,0:27:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,procedure call standard.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.00,0:27:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:11.00,0:27:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I could live with that, but
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.00,0:27:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it does not
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.00,0:27:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,expose really important
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.00,0:27:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,attributes
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.00,0:27:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,on debugs, for example.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.00,0:27:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It won't even tell you the number
Dialogue: 0,0:27:23.00,0:27:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of emails that
Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.00,0:27:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,have been received relevant to a certain issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.00,0:27:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Right? So, really basic
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.00,0:27:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,things it does not expose and
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.00,0:27:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it's
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.00,0:27:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,almost any work done with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.00,0:27:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, Mumi is a great
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.00,0:27:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,improvement and I'm happy it exists.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.00,0:27:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.00,0:27:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi is
Dialogue: 0,0:27:43.00,0:27:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,actually on an IP
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.00,0:27:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,allow-list to sync data from Debbugs
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.00,0:27:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,It has special permission from
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.00,0:27:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the Debbugs admins and
Dialogue: 0,0:27:51.00,0:27:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it is on an IP allow list.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:53.00,0:27:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, this makes it really hard
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.00,0:27:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to, you know, run your own instance and...
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.00,0:27:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of Mumi and hack on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.00,0:28:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, I'm hoping...I'm thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.00,0:28:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,that a Mumi API will
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.00,0:28:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,let us expose the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.00,0:28:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,data that
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.00,0:28:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi is the custodian of, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.00,0:28:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And, recently I've
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.00,0:28:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,been hacking on a GraphQL API for
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.00,0:28:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi. And
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.00,0:28:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,also a GraphQL library
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.00,0:28:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,for Guile in general.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.00,0:28:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I hope though
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.00,0:28:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,this API will...
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.00,0:28:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, this API is already in Mumi,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.00,0:28:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,even though I haven't properly published
Dialogue: 0,0:28:27.00,0:28:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,[???] and documented the whole thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:29.00,0:28:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,The hope is that
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.00,0:28:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,it'll motivate the creation of many
Dialogue: 0,0:28:33.00,0:28:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,small, lightweight clients.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.00,0:28:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,I say, "lightweight"
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.00,0:28:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,because
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.00,0:28:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Mumi is already doing a great job of maintaining
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.00,0:28:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the state of
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.00,0:28:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,all the issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.00,0:28:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,The "state" meaning all the email 
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.00,0:28:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,conversations, the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.00,0:28:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,current state of the bug,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:51.00,0:28:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,all of the persistent state, the state that's
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.00,0:28:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,in functional programming.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.00,0:28:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,And...
Dialogue: 0,0:28:57.00,0:28:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,More often than not, clients should only
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.00,0:29:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.00,0:29:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,download only the specific bits
Dialogue: 0,0:29:03.00,0:29:05.00,Default,,0,0,0,,of state that they want...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.00,0:29:07.00,Default,,0,0,0,,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.00,0:29:09.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Use it and then, once they're done
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.00,0:29:11.00,Default,,0,0,0,,with it, discard it...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.00,0:29:13.00,Default,,0,0,0,,because
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.00,0:29:15.00,Default,,0,0,0,,if you're...we already have
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.00,0:29:17.00,Default,,0,0,0,,way to many emails and if you wanted
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.00,0:29:19.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to download all of them into your local machine, it's going
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.00,0:29:21.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to be a few...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.00,0:29:23.00,Default,,0,0,0,,At least a Gig or few...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.00,0:29:25.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Gb (gigabytes). 
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.00,0:29:27.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, [I believe the???] 
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.00,0:29:29.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Linux kernel mailing lists are
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.00,0:29:31.00,Default,,0,0,0,,200Gb or something and that's
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.00,0:29:33.00,Default,,0,0,0,,way too much state to hold on your
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.00,0:29:35.00,Default,,0,0,0,,local machine.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.00,0:29:37.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, we are also heading in that
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.00,0:29:39.00,Default,,0,0,0,,direction, the direction of
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.00,0:29:41.00,Default,,0,0,0,,the Linux mailing list and
Dialogue: 0,0:29:41.00,0:29:43.00,Default,,0,0,0,,downloading [our???] entire
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.00,0:29:45.00,Default,,0,0,0,,state
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.00,0:29:47.00,Default,,0,0,0,,kind of like...git does it....this really bad idea...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.00,0:29:49.00,Default,,0,0,0,,We want something more lightweight.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.00,0:29:51.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, hence I thought GraphQL
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.00,0:29:53.00,Default,,0,0,0,,was really nice and it was fun
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.00,0:29:55.00,Default,,0,0,0,,to hack. So, that's kind of the
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.00,0:29:57.00,Default,,0,0,0,,reason.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:57.00,0:29:59.00,Default,,0,0,0,,So, thank you!
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.00,0:30:01.00,Default,,0,0,0,,Now you can have
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.00,0:30:03.00,Default,,0,0,0,,(End of recordingabout)