From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id yF1xJ62Q3WFQ8wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:14:05 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id mOPxI62Q3WEw6QAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:14:05 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67E07112F1 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:14:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50472 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7HuW-0006s5-Cq for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:14:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59190) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7HFq-0000SP-HY for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:32:04 -0500 Received: from sender4-op-o14.zoho.com ([136.143.188.14]:17486) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7HFl-0002hf-0W for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:32:01 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1641907905; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=F3YZmNFfx6Ek0f9/nuRWe3OhoUqIkAqcimQMraE6ywSnw8vsvXmptRxI8trEpCMRCBNrb2NRlfMvD83OEUkvnrL0u/0D/yrWvgWWJ+eB67lVWIDW84kDyQbT1a8IdDjGpSPLWqkTm/xyk4fT4Medh/W3h+BtHPv2BJMvZAeP4ow= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1641907905; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=b+QAordSUE3ROZIPqmqBgwxCqxWsh1kFHQSqn941cxE=; b=iNMCcTaaPerz4mXb23ou/zeP78dwEawQlX1alZ1x13XO5sRCL/r7gyCMcIrOKX7eenwJgbNiaF7CEAzPfXJ5wtqnfnDMWYQyCdkDg6Q0g9AhxQPeQE39Kny5dgmS4xF/RsRzeDjcE7zyKpmZ5PsueAdOMkL6UXsNCzQLO+j/CEA= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=excalamus.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=matt@excalamus.com; dmarc=pass header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1641907905; s=zmail; d=excalamus.com; i=matt@excalamus.com; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=b+QAordSUE3ROZIPqmqBgwxCqxWsh1kFHQSqn941cxE=; b=NljH2WHEfwnAoYynNT/Sg7ZuM23BGw78IRzj6MuXtF+gu0JCoJUHaC4RiwwjE+y6 BSuzWrCn/W9Ycn6MAKh7+xtsY/CX0LIpIgnyOTvp/nYpnpgBEKN4iYh+xiYUpkOpfK+ kE5oaMrMJrcoZ5GciAhre0zFwJfRaMPMceX3o5jA= Received: from mail.zoho.com by mx.zohomail.com with SMTP id 1641907903296170.4868342186703; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 05:31:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:31:43 -0500 From: Matt To: "Vincent Legoll" Message-ID: <17e49565b21.1285153a6259042.8278566905195778367@excalamus.com> In-Reply-To: References: <17e40b111ce.bc05a4a071499.1598136714226569120@excalamus.com> Subject: Re: Guix wiki MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Importance: Medium User-Agent: Zoho Mail X-Mailer: Zoho Mail Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.14; envelope-from=matt@excalamus.com; helo=sender4-op-o14.zoho.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1641910445; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=b+QAordSUE3ROZIPqmqBgwxCqxWsh1kFHQSqn941cxE=; b=CEAA+4n/VweIojHua6mW6JiVZK2NlmPF7sgRTBo8eAjV1EPRMr1r/TZtJtUS1gFQf/eRTY GY5ggB5Sz82yhMmLNjm7pQy1IaMIn7UFFg4ndJgbG2VUZmpZbiWeE1MQsx3Kla6fPNDbJX pyeVCSN02u4VoCFbZqubi7gcEVLvvxQ51pJPJB9Qxf+vc8A+yvlEfSTZTQiFkqhH6uHvii wgpTfQpppYACn5cMvwQ0/16wxPueIUiql+WRHwq6TI6WVZD+X46aTwdu1Bt37hw9yNxpAe 5p6HAIXcyx919nmQFDQJUvab75/gZAmJQdCjU/CSo2OJIYIiw0rmWCWEh50bVQ== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1641910445; a=rsa-sha256; cv=fail; b=ZNS7+5hkbSv5FNRYaF8yvBnwAX3o+u+xs53qP2wwQHeXS7/uCK2rsbZLo2I9J++gyR0hCK pv/tXt9eK8EuM0D7QpW+/Ay6zh5YkKVTYmGpGPhvBePI6p+fsTXoUdBrwkDS4kHgagMrbJ 3g+OwgLXvVQ6KcAJujVEmPG5RV2+FuM2Z7ojpgtw/vPz2ItU/jr9TQffERPQ9mf8sRpTPz njOzp3Nx9Fgr5TP1sZk0GPkHUxIW1QpbSDzIwfqYHH+UcSOPSsUK57sqM4UqFYb2i840wb Yn2QRpVPU42nNOPjZQA86A3039Nwm/0S/+8KAP/0kdDqY6JA0t07WxUT8ImTxQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=excalamus.com header.s=zmail header.b=NljH2WHE; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.90 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=excalamus.com header.s=zmail header.b=NljH2WHE; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 67E07112F1 X-Spam-Score: -1.90 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 7ekN3kdhKsrt > There is something here: > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix Good point and it's already linked from the Guix homepage. Trouble is, it only seems editable by FSF associate members (which costs $120 or $60 for students). Am I missing something? While that meets the technical requirement for a wiki, I don't think it meets the spirit: to be easily editable by anyone. What message does that send to would-be contributors? To me, it says something like, we don't actually care about your contribution: you have to literally buy in first. I feel like it also says that community isn't important to us. As an FSF member, I could modify the wiki. However, I know that most people can't. That's the opposite of community. To me, the libreplanet wiki is a non-starter. I was thrilled to see a wiki link on the homepage and disgusted to see that it didn't actually foster community. In fact, there's strife immediately within the "community" wiki, the simple fact it exists, let alone what it says. I think it would be better to have nothing linked from the homepage because 1) the current wiki is useless and 2) linking endorses what's there, including how it appears hostile to community. I'm able to rationalize and understand that these messages are probably not what's intended. However, I think it important to share those reactions.