From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id yCa6C48wdGIPMgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 05 May 2022 22:16:15 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id ABDlCo8wdGL1DwAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 05 May 2022 22:16:15 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F89B297E1 for ; Thu, 5 May 2022 22:16:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42418 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmhtV-00030D-Sc for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 16:16:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36484) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmhr7-00071r-IY for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 16:13:46 -0400 Received: from laurent.telenet-ops.be ([2a02:1800:110:4::f00:19]:44186) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmhqv-00057Z-Mi for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 16:13:36 -0400 Received: from ptr-bvsjgyhxw7psv60dyze.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be ([IPv6:2a02:1811:8c09:9d00:3c5f:2eff:feb0:ba5a]) by laurent.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id T8DW2700K4UW6Th018DWSC; Thu, 05 May 2022 22:13:31 +0200 Message-ID: <0fa7c8f3068e5c5f8192b307fcb3446b0724dbf9.camel@telenet.be> Subject: Re: Multiple profiles with Guix Home From: Maxime Devos To: Liliana Marie Prikler , Andrew Tropin , guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 22:13:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <8735hqvh4a.fsf@trop.in> <8a42a0c84d35231b360a421fe0b846c8e1aa3d2c.camel@gmail.com> <8b66e609b7c9d5183017ccf7fef47c818fcea231.camel@gmail.com> <25e0ca9be4053c94d12461ec42f1985cd6730a8f.camel@gmail.com> <07907034239128b36890690703fe6cb6b4ce958e.camel@telenet.be> <53eabd93a0e41723ad3e0238314e630e713f8cfe.camel@gmail.com> <4bb446ca24b57f648d1dd4f0083010d9ee35c40f.camel@telenet.be> <28dcab6db488b73a95bfe349a3e97a3f4f5ec345.camel@telenet.be> <330265fe1014a4015dc64ec645f6c1171771b1df.camel@gmail.com> <03221fd1743fb50325dff2604f7b4fc3ae450c1b.camel@telenet.be> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Y829zkvKgHus4PMl+lN8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r22; t=1651781611; bh=CrS3qWaxxOUmX+0lLoCTRZdWBPZx1D3RD8pJw+c8FJ8=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=o2ol7XGEkQ/sl6hAEIfYeGA2oCbbD7wujHuMftNoFsuVt21Q5b6CMNfzACFV7fLWH ikJ5VwBAAegmwkiG2z9XPIfJ/jjJYI+m3kx0DXEcgIfF14+qq+heMC5kRXxeq0TPbO orTOxXENI9y/akpZM/5PFfBZfAcfCmGkU87J+wGxcAToZC97rI++Y7PL+BMwpwqoeG QbuD2nGRikJQK6ItoP3Bxkm7Q3zGw/lppeuDlJqTuI6F828ySJsrjXyevarjrrxBCd /O8Znfw/hKuwcx27/Ygg+/m20HsoD88K681Kpo7QLQbMczUOnlvJyxAdF5RP11vb4R FGIPZYjPifaXw== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:1800:110:4::f00:19; envelope-from=maximedevos@telenet.be; helo=laurent.telenet-ops.be X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1651781774; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=CrS3qWaxxOUmX+0lLoCTRZdWBPZx1D3RD8pJw+c8FJ8=; b=ZB1at9YZX1sQiQUq/cuB3qC2JcaD5FDk3XAjjRq8UuTSg+X+dH8ZzHoarj7yWSN2mP2NvG MSxiJ2myxTpsTnlX1HSPXVMsjF4TE7SlRFZoChA52HA2pCu94vlPGyzRcpvAxM6ibovdI6 1zp18N9FGXUhXjcqmrN81q/PvReY7cA1LICVgr90fhy0P/zjsoGRi9rj3IEIScKfcmx9fN 0oHGygIRt5JgEc/PU8j8l6taH/pF37DBbNSaiABf6+ViXiIHcospCFkZG6g4Vd8hozvA1v Xjg6IbSUgq6daU+WDY78zYiQq0PRgeIO7auGDo0AU+T1LSGxENnh94hJllTrhw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1651781774; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WnjQjdyXlo3RkmHmI9cSLeoUSIoGXOsILT/auYtqw5C056Fh8K69fPGi9GRAuV4DZ35xQf TEjDor86fvhzrzPtIBhYX9vxoUrqCC14/jkcxMOJ5i08N4+bBQNjZmVYUqYg0rKmlbTvhX YRvCjlj0eaOBaxkbODTxZpsZET+8F0sAiDsUL+kcZ7OHipw/MRMuOg64NFdFz3md6wFLH7 K9F9UNxm2pRqg+cuKIt0w71h+KzTkn0uwsdFiPI6lXz2xuJ90tbMxJUQc62MhXqVhU9OiN Dje9g8Nljr+5+nZeve9Xez6mmBVZ3F3u0ElxEfbEkGAUTkRBBK8F8ARraGZOHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=o2ol7XGE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.19 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=o2ol7XGE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9F89B297E1 X-Spam-Score: -6.19 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: l0t3zme2Q6P7 --=-Y829zkvKgHus4PMl+lN8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Liliana Marie Prikler schreef op do 05-05-2022 om 21:08 [+0200]: > And you're not taking into account my time cost of debating you when I > already have manifests split across many files that I want to manage as > separate profiles using Guix Home, kthxbye. Debating things is a one-time cost, whereas potential time savings/time increases will be a gain for all future users / a loss for all future users. Also, didn't you ask for comments on your proposal, implicitely by sending to guix-devel@ and explicitly by > What do y'all think? ? > But to entertain the idea, suppose Alice wants to make her profiles > smaller so that they build faster.=C2=A0 Which sounds more reasonable?= =20 > Bundling groups of packages that fit together into their own manifests, > then instantiating one profile for each, or rolling a six-sided die and > putting the package into whichever bin is number four?=C2=A0 If you're a > machine, you probably think the latter.=C2=A0=20 Seems like a false dichotomy, why not: Alice teaches Guix to do the equivalent of rolling a six-sided dice, so she doesn't have to figure out a bundling and she doesn't have to manually roll dices. Now, teaching this is a bit of a time investment, but she shares it with all other Guix users, so everyone benefits of automatically better performance. > What could be more fair than a six-sided die? Why, a seven-sided die > of course! I assume N-sided die =3D N-separate profiles here? If so, not sure what the 'fair' is about? Taken to the extreme, why not N separate profiles, where N is the number of packages? > We disagree about the question whether users should be granted a > method of declaring multiple profiles to use for their own purposes > in whichever way they see fit through `guix home'. I don't? Well, initially I didn't see a reason for multiple profiles, so I asked for reasons, and eventually, a few reasons that weren't addressed yet by other things were mentioned (e.g.: tidyness of separate profiles, some kind of minimalism where one only has packages in $PATH and other search paths that are currently neccessary by manually activating a profile that has a selection of packages)? > You are painfully trying to claim I don't see anything painful about it, and I'm not anymore. > there is no need to do so whereas I not only claim there is, but also > that any existing way of achieving similar results fails to meet my > requirements, which are: >=20 > 1. multiple profiles can be configured at once > 2. profile locations should be specified by the user > 3. profile generations are not littered, instead, the user has a way > of > linking to /var/guix/profiles/per-user > 4. both package lists and manifests are supported > 5. existing configurations can be expressed in terms of the new > system > 6. individual profiles can be "disabled", i.e. not sourced during > activation, but still built > 7. individual profiles can lack a manifest, in which case nothing is > built, but they are still sourced on login (2) is already achieved by "-p". (4) is already achieved by "-m/ no -m" (3) not sure why the user would care about /var/guix/profiles/per-user (7) is already achieved by "guix install" / "guix package -m". The =E2=80=98source on login=E2=80=99 isn't though -- half-achieved? Remains: (1), (5), (6), (7) not yet completely achieved. This kind of list was what I was asking for. > [...] along with any underspecified search path > For the latter we still need a solution > that works regardless of guix home anyway, so it is not a point of > discussion here. The extra Guix Home feature magnifies the problem of search paths, so it seems a point of discussion here to me. Especially since solving it for Guix Home profiles seems a lot less complicated than the general case to me: just compute the set of search paths (combined over all packages in all the profiles) and use these search paths for all the profiles.=20 Greetings, Maxime. --=-Y829zkvKgHus4PMl+lN8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYnQv5BccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7nNJAP41jLzHcgG10FlWePCLDOuwjIYd eudgZ2JXQvRcxIZtIwD/U3fz0FQgpppD4JoMBaSFqKG6KrUTyiiDphBfLETNWwk= =J1nC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Y829zkvKgHus4PMl+lN8--