From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2ALlOiGRHWcc7AAAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 01:02:26 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2ALlOiGRHWcc7AAAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:02:26 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; none Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C43808739E for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:02:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4rf2-00083n-CB; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:01:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4rex-00083T-IF for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:01:36 -0400 Received: from dane.soverin.net ([2a10:de80:1:4091:b9e9:2215:0:1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4rev-00085A-GU for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:01:35 -0400 Received: from smtp.soverin.net (unknown [10.10.4.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by dane.soverin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XbdWW6K66z6f; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 01:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.soverin.net (smtp.soverin.net [10.10.4.99]) by soverin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4XbdWV6QGVz5C; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 01:01:26 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=elenq.tech; s=soverin1; t=1729990887; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=Pa/jpTadQaIQdMHc/ldWWez1ISZOnR1p56HlPz1g5yc=; b=fKx88L10VXcnYlURAbUXEOUZDPUU8eLRjyB7wx9nb+QRPAoZYxk/GW2ikS9PEB0XcB7EN+ b6pgqHnB257Td+1Zgyf4zw1bOlYa0TzIouj4uH4cud54iteSHznmGt1VWLcAiV9amigkUE IGxhnt5ZePg+m8zA2Mdtw4BDKdsTOSioky11MHo5hNJzIusjWrtQsv3Gw0hROlyieEmi+8 1lj8eXPm8Dj6DXREb18DsuGQEO9oQlA/XFmuGC3INCi6S299RankKkkRrYq62KfCtLWqGS aGSgrRIVZdKfYcQed08TuYdNWat2t8drj0pTC0hcupobG5cEkp/ruAU6VMRXkg== Message-ID: <02559f63-35e6-4159-9d4c-e1d423aad3be@elenq.tech> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:01:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guix (and Guile's) promise, and how to (hopefully) get there To: Juliana Sims Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, suhailsingh247@gmail.com References: Content-Language: en-US, es-ES, eu From: Ekaitz Zarraga Autocrypt: addr=ekaitz@elenq.tech; keydata= xsFNBGViSyIBEADY3g71uW/0CVaVm5/ObqTicQXXJRuh1uafIFiUUZoAp1V3V89b3LZ/m0cL 8YNHxTxsx8sKIMYTGlOvARAMiSpDvkmpf5pLn5T7+VvK90FOv/Pkp1tNNT+tvd0m/7C58+39 s7tN+XppbjVRtFuSXY0aFe8rpivZsKxv+tPUHUnQQszXvwgx0GQl8AX99IE+j75NJmBHFVg2 0geKa7QVymu669ix2+zU8vGoOKf5nIS0qG1m/vrtwR3ZuuyWX9/E/uP95ahX5ETWtjhTDbEm MEaRperwbczBewkdERJ34vRrverqKQA1xHXoPsx4NkLMocORFSSCJsveXcgWlU+pUIOYcKUA ARJjHhoWoUH4LZt5EOb7U17AaYMmATUXPCqq8G3jEXq6i0O1J1obCJGIRG02R9GiGp4zrVuv 2hmyoAmed4xYZAtf9WjcbwiunDkMGIxscdSlfEH/9dt7PGdEvkZ0dNSCTbp4ctMI4jAfobAL LReMSGx1CgPi01J61a/n/SgR66AiRJZCyC1u2V7AK1rBOAYzOU4UoePz+yF1I7crjZWAQVo6 DlmmXW+29l/lh2oK5jOuNEcvI6qi+tPCYxpDhUhZeYgqFU+/xgGlMj/XGvwuIFlpVg9ovFMg 6mxskOCVP9xNEp/qHiHqByYu5NRcITo/z/3BUimdXTT4KSq2cQARAQABzSJFa2FpdHogWmFy cmFnYSA8ZWthaXR6QGVsZW5xLnRlY2g+wsGOBBMBCAA4FiEEg/pnRVjAUpRlfkwZt5lM+Jly CyYFAmViSyICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQt5lM+JlyCybjZxAAy+YW 3Q22xKoMWJYw03qGCy87WPK+xGWDpKD6TJ77+/IEbldObyQRrKYTTGjQSy6WgaJ0txJMIqeK JyuWuR3bq+Vkh86Byntl25jknOJ+jY1zwPs6HnWFr+hS48FcQh/0D26h57Cqc+6nbKhJcva8 JsInbHTbWPz7wye+xhqY1LfdgVTbCyADESXdmBY30/vP4LzqW81atwYF6X7dN7ko/JvyPPdv VlcspmbP6zNihoApBHdMfJwYscyAsu6tTyL4hMG3zpraeU+S857vZN39gFagRng+uyZG7rfB dHHAFzT1LKOZ4dahavOfA0gS1RZTgtAGsvhUEBn9vKxlB4efZuKhwMtgQEskRFD6JIF1DYCj pLgn5x/y3oI6rn35R46VDhLfohcUWpvzplu6LBft8ZNr+UgoVYc6qBezyDlxk0FmhGI7DEoh gfUxljTALXjSdUGEw2mvp/Mcrz+ffemWpG4+Zq0UXR8sZaHpv+PqmFLFFSQCOCRTYbMKzZBn y03wym3y0tGtunDGm5pR7NEPqUO9QbZdKyTy4ftRkSfTpiPCF8+KKYDT8HimSrusmtTfR4R1 nBJ4lNBYgTdOyJYFbHdF0Jxo9r0t+K2e+6hX6bK79o6aC+/LtzkoYgjCWvAEopO0ras/XQYM S7/bCzeDIhXX5RqmMIp5XN+oBP2roZDOwU0EZWJLIgEQAMIgPDpJY9aOhFiFICx58XMM28An yUPdN39t0A8VkUbsvKXH6eNqUZj/Q3yNcZrknAT1vinv9FN/4uCUnsaqEKp+mRAYgzmNfeJk SWuMzmA04fcISIBz3sJUR0w/59tWi8QxlNn7IR6McAA3lHDXC+KYh9ZfhaOARfan1M6Ppy6g YltUQGSSPXU807inmQZh8GFTi8iUza7vGuBEnaNRGhmhR+blMwHSqVWN4gD81e8dSAEi3zNR sLoBXneHUqTcJMHvsT5cOk7cGMoVAWIffA2EKWfrgda57Qw+w+0OPqWEfKoXwnyt35Tl+Lxl 7MAaAG9R5760yhgkf3LmnBNP3m6StZ8Fv09Gdn5cGSbVnoofHDkg4PQDTD6aGz9af3SnGVg9 nb1Zm1XbqtnYwG9JvQhcjgWAHwrPLkHAcvKtfYWNe4wiirMjXMXxADY08g33SEchPJR2r4pg wttJS4kHUJ2IQUmSH/43RO5PkftWsCucYGeaG1aPr+GAkeKIS1M3OZGuqhd800mltpiH73eL XrUPF8fgngC+SGMrHXLfzuhaRxPNYUbsdF+wRkvjRSO4tCmSVpgfPsHu5emoZgix1iiTO7GF do7L6n1Ay3oF4Witoxc0Gcbu7ltYlZHGmDnsVTVALartsJV2muSXpWcjQiXyC0gUkIkUD/3P jtgVxK8xABEBAAHCwXYEGAEIACAWIQSD+mdFWMBSlGV+TBm3mUz4mXILJgUCZWJLIgIbDAAK CRC3mUz4mXILJrIaD/9CXGckwRCojuRzP0r6+8/RvNDc03CSe2W17WrSaoYgiRb+h5asI/AL yqw+QRgwXZpt0i9hNiDCe/baD62mufIyjKFjHoAWSYJuZ5VK3vWnro6GaxWULYt1+c4c4Lz2 d1nSK6j8F3CxYo7BFk6afOusjYfh+0HywThcYY+x+K5Z+4SdJejDLiL5AzJn2W5Gt/ViK5nI wl7uRQpayMc9zmI8ytUT2NJxovq1/fT9nB8VPwlbJTE9zvIqfqHh9o9Apx5o8yTaSCyGUyu9 8h/klqxFy4HAPJJu/3JkiMaCI45ZdCqRR1LIwhtmW2lb73r0rP/0S1cKi+ehA4oQvwiUw7zh XXw7mqzSAJ0SWT92Vy2G8Z8qqgwxwfQcdFZAyJAL1rgEPQljNT91Vgbc6DCUka2XW5BqyhEB eS0n1gK0hYXbM9FKegRsZxlmRAXa4KGXCwr4BNK6k+zkKPitezjbtcLgcKSHa8/HyHNkW7xH R+MN16x2elQPmQ2d0Ien1HgsK98+3prlUGwZIVCqa1ddSoW0llU3JzGsKrMAiYbWg/rOXFil RJbuhjflaLBVmfI8VlRQRocP+WEH0lsUWrtjVaGcBj1/YnIoT+zT6fPSXwPsrBvAWEjfl8HH e1F4cYb+ugPDwUTd1s2Uj2tF0/fhCHPy9sXyx/EIL3gqyBw9M2Rz9A== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spampanel-Class: ham Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a10:de80:1:4091:b9e9:2215:0:1; envelope-from=ekaitz@elenq.tech; helo=dane.soverin.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.00 X-Spam-Score: -4.00 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C43808739E X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: JKG3+hNXPopJ Hi Juliana, I like some of the points you do here: we should encourage committers to review patches, and give commit access to those that are focused on that. On the other hand, I disagree with your message about GNU and the FSF. First, I don't think the sentiment you describe about GNU and the FSF is universal. It's probably biased by the people you interact with and the country you live in. That's not something for me to criticize, you have your views and they are valid, the problem with your argument is the same I find with the "let's use a Git forge, that'll give use many new contributors!". It's just really hard to measure. I wish being a GNU project was the only problem Guix had. The sad truth is we'd probably had the same conversation if the project was just Guix, with no GNU and no FSF support involved. Furthermore, we'd probably be in a worse position, at least economically speaking. I understand the recent news make us be a little bit heated about the FSF and so on, but I don't think it's a central matter of this discussion. It's probably going to encourage a division in the community as many members are here **because** this is a FSF endorsed distribution. Being a GNU/FSF project still means a lot to many, and when it comes to the free software purism, those acronyms still have some credibility. Maybe without those we'd be just empty. We don't know. So I prefer to be more cautious with the arguments. Thanks for highlighting the work of these community members and for your thoughts. Ekaitz