From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id iD5ZKwDyimHnXgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 23:11:12 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id sH4EJwDyimHCIQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 22:11:12 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CF92258E4 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 23:11:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51222 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKg-0007St-9B for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:11:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52800) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKY-0007Sj-LH for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:11:02 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:52804) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKY-0007Pz-DJ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:11:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKY-0005ze-2l for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:11:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#51696: Request: Adopt the unofficial GUIX community on Matrix Resent-From: Jacob Hrbek Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 22:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51696 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Mark H Weaver Received: via spool by 51696-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51696.163649585023020 (code B ref 51696); Tue, 09 Nov 2021 22:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 51696) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2021 22:10:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKI-0005z9-0g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:10:50 -0500 Received: from mail-4022.proton.ch ([185.70.40.22]:33824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mkZKF-0005yv-8q for 51696@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:10:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 22:10:32 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rixotstudio.cz; s=protonmail2; t=1636495836; bh=fGNXB6HfDl1OC7uOVzzTIM665eFt7G9csZ0O/cVgNuY=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=1yDgZAIY3jpDfeOAgVBT1EPxVKA75sXYs2pC9czSOgmbpqLloohaGJG2CAJLW4iUl IQylTqf2EzbRmQ9yWdO6q76mJJmYXd/r50uYFsqYIGCh7OBq5rMawEngHOxRfpSs4M BQ8pk7z6VLDy7WdWQzTcTaW4bJRJ1oIlhlXg2DPpD6KSYmz0oKgpXo1yhxDocd2jRo /jKYFRHvv9PGevDSiWlIFdeCP6a84+/heGwuhyAGx3AsyWCEOyNs8xleoWiR0kHU+l 001UQvgBRNSuvaGy9cspNtaeqw6jZvR7HK9YKmPj+YYI8MZ3OIn08lbsjztg81P5Mg ucwNXME6tg3tg== From: Jacob Hrbek Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87fss5udj9.fsf@netris.org> References: <87fss5udj9.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="------af3a157144bd5396a70446c42f5a5c42549e6041449f663e75d0a11ee92574cb"; charset=utf-8 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jacob Hrbek Cc: 51696@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1636495872; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:resent-cc:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references: list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: dkim-signature; bh=fGNXB6HfDl1OC7uOVzzTIM665eFt7G9csZ0O/cVgNuY=; b=K3frhP308xc55McSrQLpgakmpU90kp13szM0HfyBv3ztMZN+xSk7XGH12MJHxOsPc4wWhQ E4uc0rXm8HlWVLmum5bmm3YKGRcfzKuFtMJnCvFO7eGvEzu/+f/IswqsQtpxRZnI9fGv/i Jc3YR8Y75B36sT/pqJc3W/KaSdFSy3cICk1BYdvz46JqF/fOc3S2GHM+uWr1tVaasmPrrv l0g4Blq3Y9KdCVvchMHDIfiVtXa6WcGPs2ZyC+ILzyiQ/NSiql7y54nYHhidulLMrMdUFa r8HytGYgVlqNquCmvyW3qwZJdP/C0Vkbr6v3GuEmkomhQS/ruSEppqef8zwKEw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1636495872; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ofjLRk2X6RtsqUajiH5NW+WkLY1Ogm5s5CiwkQtK+sLBGGqBP6wNHGJsTTfTd/afjE3NKZ W41HrcTNYtUJTwD95yjPnKr9sWyFmRAxvbDLJjDERq9jCMNmT1JPGRVzDiCLM4DnhTh5PA u8mHvH8QGgVeMfgQQBRnfw/jCOn/dPNwCHaUDqMp2oelRxTgps8YulIDYBxWJLPwTxWo+Y 54/+SNyZ5lICofxLb9xLtoU2aqJJNltnjYqFIFSIqpYGnxCz3nk/yKZ2QPRz7slXpR5b0X tOXGBRVLPJyQcsGvqZipVsW0RQ0pHmgD6hj+50hrc9/u7gp6WpkF/h4t5xfspg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=rixotstudio.cz header.s=protonmail2 header.b=1yDgZAIY; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=rixotstudio.cz (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=rixotstudio.cz header.s=protonmail2 header.b=1yDgZAIY; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=rixotstudio.cz (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1CF92258E4 X-Spam-Score: -3.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: eeFKg25we5IK This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------af3a157144bd5396a70446c42f5a5c42549e6041449f663e75d0a11ee92574cb Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------6ddb252c70882bbe2916c1ab1833dfe7 -----------------------6ddb252c70882bbe2916c1ab1833dfe7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 My motivation for this proposal is to make GNU Guix more accessible and us= er-friendly so that I can get my team to use it painlessly to organize the= work as I currently use NiXOS where nixlang is giving me anxiety and it's= too limited to my liking. I prefer zero trust model so I am happy with transferring the matrix space= to the chosen GNU representative. About the channel I sent a message to the owner and waiting for a reply. About matrix I am proposing to run our own homeserver that GNU Guix have f= ull control over. I helped Ian Kelling with the implementation for FSF when they were moving= off of Freenode so i assume that we can just fork the implementation or a= dapt it in GNU guile? Note: FSF decided to not move on matrix as one of it's clients is using Go= ogle's reCAPTCHA for registration (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-do= c/issues/3220) and is allegedly using electron.. FWIW i never understood t= he reasoning as the homeserver does not depend on the client and there are= multiple alternatives (https://matrix.org/clients). About bridges they are self-hosted (https://matrix.org/bridges) so GNU Gui= x would be in full control over them, but some e.g. https://t2bot.io provi= de it for free to the general public without a guaranteed uptime. I believe it also answers the question about moderating? There are also mo= deration bots (https://matrix.org/bots/) such as mjolnil that afaik can be configured that if user is banned= on matrix that it will issue the ban across all bridges and if needed the= space. FWIW on Matrix we don't have to trust the "trusted" people who run it if G= NU Guix has their own homeserver. -- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M= essage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday, November 9th, 2021 at 5:02 AM, Mark H Weaver = wrote: > Hi Jacob, > = > Jacob Hrbek kreyren@rixotstudio.cz writes: > = > > There is an unofficial GNU Guix community on matrix (#guix:matrix.org) > > = > > with 375 members and an unofficial matrix space that i've created > > = > > (https://matrix.to/#/#gnu-guix:tchncs.de) which consist of > > = > > IRC<->Matrix bridged channels. > > = > > Proposing for GNU Guix to adopt this community, it's moderators and my > > = > > space to configure IRC<->Matrix bridge (less then 4000 CPU cycles per > > = > > day last time i checked) to connect those two communities and users > > = > > who prefer either of those protocols to increase the reach of GNU Guix > > = > > to new users. > = > I appreciate this initiative, and from my preliminary investigations it > = > seems to me that Matrix would be a good protocol to support. I would be > = > glad if GNU Guix gained an official Matrix channel. > = > I have one concern: I'm concerned about control. > = > You propose that GNU Guix should adopt "this community, it's moderators > = > and my space". Who are these moderators? Who controls the "space"? > = > Who gets to decide who is given moderation privileges over the "space"? > = > If, in the future, you disagreed with the GNU Guix project leadership > = > over how the "space" was being managed, who would have the technical > = > and/or legal ability to override the others' wishes? > = > In short, would we need to trust you? > = > I hope that you will not read these concerns as suggesting that you have > = > ill intent. On the contrary, although I don't know you, I think it's > = > highly likely that your intent is benign, and I appreciate your efforts > = > to improve our communications infrastructure. > = > I would have these concerns regardless of who held the keys, even if it > = > were a long-time Guix project participant who I had come to deeply > = > respect and trust. > = > What do you think? > = > Regards, > = > Mark > = > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------- > = > Disinformation flourishes because many people care deeply about injustic= e > = > but very few check the facts. Ask me about https://stallmansupport.org. -----------------------6ddb252c70882bbe2916c1ab1833dfe7 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; filename="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc"; name="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc"; name="publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 0x1677DB82.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBPcGVuUEdQLmpz IHY0LjEwLjEwDQpDb21tZW50OiBodHRwczovL29wZW5wZ3Bqcy5vcmcNCg0KeGpNRVlBbDNGaFlK S3dZQkJBSGFSdzhCQVFkQVFLQXBtZFI4dEc5YUtFZHh3SEovWktPMkN2Wk1SV1B0DQpCTk5HcUpV aHAyTE5MMnR5WlhseVpXNUFjbWw0YjNSemRIVmthVzh1WTNvZ1BHdHlaWGx5Wlc1QWNtbDQNCmIz UnpkSFZrYVc4dVkzbyt3bzhFRUJZS0FDQUZBbUFKZHhZR0N3a0hDQU1DQkJVSUNnSUVGZ0lCQUFJ Wg0KQVFJYkF3SWVBUUFoQ1JDdDAzMFVxMEw4cVJZaEJCWjMyNEtUaktobGM0RWpCNjNUZlJTclF2 eXA1N1FBDQovMHRsYmRuQ0l6cmVLWG12VzJYU1lYekFKb3RKZHhDekUrWEFUTStxUERLekFRQ2Ni SHA3eXc2K0FybmcNCmVTdEdGbi9vbGh4VFBkcHU2NDFDTEdpZ1BtRW9CYzQ0QkdBSmR4WVNDaXNH QVFRQmwxVUJCUUVCQjBEYQ0KaUkzalFmU29pM0RaNC9OZm14R2RzUnN2OS9CcU1nVzVqNmpkQnFr eUlBTUJDQWZDZUFRWUZnZ0FDUVVDDQpZQWwzRmdJYkRBQWhDUkN0MDMwVXEwTDhxUlloQkJaMzI0 S1RqS2hsYzRFakI2M1RmUlNyUXZ5cEhjRUINCkFPUXhTL0ovVU0wZWU4azJqYmxpV2QvUTBJZCtY OFVIQlhoeXFWUmMyMnFyQVFETEhjVzk3V1FiU0pGbw0KMTlrd3Q3ME95SGVwRjZMV3BERDBQdUlT WkQ2SUNnPT0NCj05a1pnDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQo= -----------------------6ddb252c70882bbe2916c1ab1833dfe7-- --------af3a157144bd5396a70446c42f5a5c42549e6041449f663e75d0a11ee92574cb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wnUEARYKAAYFAmGK8coAIQkQrdN9FKtC/KkWIQQWd9uCk4yoZXOBIwet030U q0L8qYtjAP93W3v+thD9pdQJ/UKbYvfoXV3BKC0xAoxdrvxuYyA77QEA+7wj wrJYjpJU4LGHH1qDjwTH+7ADfQLQFXZ0zTzwYAQ= =apJ1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------af3a157144bd5396a70446c42f5a5c42549e6041449f663e75d0a11ee92574cb--