* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
@ 2021-04-23 13:41 bo0od
2021-04-23 14:15 ` Christopher Baines
2021-04-23 15:16 ` Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-23 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 47971
Hi There,
The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not
friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i missed
more)
guix pull
guix upgrade
sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm
There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:
- pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it
make sense in git atmosphere/usage.
- upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used
within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.
- reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...
There are many ways we can improve this by using different better terms
which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are just
examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure why not)
- pull -> update or refresh
- upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade
- reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or
system-upgrade
----
OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using
shortcuts to only letters e.g
pull -> p or -p
upgrade -> u or -u
reconfigure -> re or -re
as a one world for memory "pure" (any other letters can be used as well)
ThX!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
2021-04-23 13:41 bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade bo0od
@ 2021-04-23 14:15 ` Christopher Baines
2021-04-23 14:46 ` bo0od
2021-04-23 15:16 ` Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Baines @ 2021-04-23 14:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bo0od; +Cc: 47971
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bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:
> Hi There,
>
> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not
> friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i
> missed more)
>
> guix pull
> guix upgrade
> sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm
>
>
> There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:
>
> - pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it
> make sense in git atmosphere/usage.
guix pull usually does a git pull under the hood and then builds guix
from that updated repository.
I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite of
push? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate to
Guix?
> - upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used
> within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.
>
> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...
>
> There are many ways we can improve this by using different better
> terms which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are
> just examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure
> why not)
>
> - pull -> update or refresh
I think update is OK, although I think pull is OK too. refresh is
already taken.
> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade
> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or
> system-upgrade
You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) by
reconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to as
an upgrade (as it's not always).
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
2021-04-23 14:15 ` Christopher Baines
@ 2021-04-23 14:46 ` bo0od
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-23 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christopher Baines; +Cc: 47971
> I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite of
> push? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate to
> Guix?
git pull , git push -> both are making sense
guix pull, but no guix push -> doesnt make sense as there is no relation
between pull and other used commands. (thus i suggested to use known
linked-terms like update,upgrade...etc)
> You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) by
> reconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to as
> an upgrade (as it's not always)
I see, for example it can be made as upgrade command to always read
configurations which are only intended for upgrading the system and if
you want to use downgrade then it will read configurations only intended
for downgrading the system. (either by using the same config.scm or each
command point to separated config.scm like upgrade.scm and downgrade.scm...)
by this can run system-upgrade , system-downgrade or
dist-upgrade/downgrade..etc
Maybe there are better solutions like better terms or technical
solutions someone can come up with to make things better than the
current situation.
Christopher Baines:
>
> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> writes:
>
>> Hi There,
>>
>> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not
>> friendly to type nor to memorize, Current commands:(i dunno if i
>> missed more)
>>
>> guix pull
>> guix upgrade
>> sudo guix reconfigure /etc/config.scm
>>
>>
>> There is no relation can be drawn from using these commands:
>>
>> - pull: Is actually the opposite of push which is a git command and it
>> make sense in git atmosphere/usage.
>
> guix pull usually does a git pull under the hood and then builds guix
> from that updated repository.
>
> I don't get what you mean when you say pull is actually the opposite of
> push? That's true in the sense of the words, but how does that relate to
> Guix?
>
>> - upgrade: This is the only good one as this is very common term used
>> within distros or actually most of the operating systems generally.
>>
>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm: hmm...
>>
>> There are many ways we can improve this by using different better
>> terms which can be easily memorized and even linked e.g: (These are
>> just examples, If there are any better terms you can come with sure
>> why not)
>>
>> - pull -> update or refresh
>
> I think update is OK, although I think pull is OK too. refresh is
> already taken.
>
>> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade
>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or
>> system-upgrade
>
> You can "downgrade" (switch to using an older Guix/software) by
> reconfiguring, so I wouldn't like to see that operation referred to as
> an upgrade (as it's not always).
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
2021-04-23 13:41 bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade bo0od
2021-04-23 14:15 ` Christopher Baines
@ 2021-04-23 15:16 ` Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2021-04-23 16:23 ` bo0od
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix @ 2021-04-23 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bo0od; +Cc: 47971
bo0od writes:
> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not
> friendly to type nor to memorize
The name of package management commands seems like it would largely be
personal preference.
Each person using Guix could customize the commands to their own
preferences using Bash aliases or an equivalent for the shell they are
using. For Bash refer to the Aliases section of it's info
documentation.
> - pull -> update or refresh
> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade
> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or
> system-upgrade
For command names there are many package managers that you can look to
for inspiration. Here are some examples:
* Gentoo - emerge
* OpenBSD - pkg
* Void - xbps
* Alpine - apk
* Debian - apt
* Arch - pacam or paru
* Fedora - dnf
> OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using
> shortcuts to only letters e.g
>
> pull -> p or -p
> upgrade -> u or -u
> reconfigure -> re or -re
This could also be done with shell aliases.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
2021-04-23 15:16 ` Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix
@ 2021-04-23 16:23 ` bo0od
2021-04-23 18:50 ` Leo Prikler
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-23 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bone Baboon; +Cc: 47971
Not really personal, Its about when there are new users these commands
looks horrible.
You can call it personal when im saying use this X instead B while X and
B has the same bad approach or both are good. This is called personal e.g:
use upgrade instead of distro-upgrade = yeah very much is something not
really benefiting/different and personal.
but pull or update , reconfigure or system-upgrade...etc this is not
anymore personal as i have already explained in my reasoning above.
Bone Baboon:
> bo0od writes:
>> The current commands used to make sure everything updated are not
>> friendly to type nor to memorize
>
> The name of package management commands seems like it would largely be
> personal preference.
>
> Each person using Guix could customize the commands to their own
> preferences using Bash aliases or an equivalent for the shell they are
> using. For Bash refer to the Aliases section of it's info
> documentation.
>
>> - pull -> update or refresh
>> - upgrade -> can be kept or package-upgrade
>> - reconfigure /etc/config.scm -> dist-upgrade or distro-upgrade or
>> system-upgrade
>
> For command names there are many package managers that you can look to
> for inspiration. Here are some examples:
>
> * Gentoo - emerge
> * OpenBSD - pkg
> * Void - xbps
> * Alpine - apk
> * Debian - apt
> * Arch - pacam or paru
> * Fedora - dnf
>
>> OR There is another approach some distros taking which is using
>> shortcuts to only letters e.g
>>
>> pull -> p or -p
>> upgrade -> u or -u
>> reconfigure -> re or -re
>
> This could also be done with shell aliases.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade
2021-04-23 16:23 ` bo0od
@ 2021-04-23 18:50 ` Leo Prikler
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Leo Prikler @ 2021-04-23 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bo0od, Bone Baboon; +Cc: 47971
Am Freitag, den 23.04.2021, 16:23 +0000 schrieb bo0od:
> Not really personal, Its about when there are new users these
> commands
> looks horrible.
Sorry for informing you, but your sense for aesthetics is a very
personal thing. If we really want to talk about UX, much more would be
gained by having a translatable GUI than through questionable command
renamings.
> You can call it personal when im saying use this X instead B while X
> and
> B has the same bad approach or both are good. This is called personal
> e.g:
>
> use upgrade instead of distro-upgrade = yeah very much is something
> not
> really benefiting/different and personal.
>
> but pull or update , reconfigure or system-upgrade...etc this is not
> anymore personal as i have already explained in my reasoning above.
- guix pull: You "pull" a fresh set of package descriptions. Note,
that you can't "push" package descriptions *yet*.
- guix upgrade: You "upgrade" a given user profile.
- guix system reconfigure: You "reconfigure" your "system" according to
the specifications made in some file. Note, that this is not
inherently an upgrade -- it is perfectly fine only to change some
services, to add new ones, or to do all of those three at once.
Of course, there may come times, when you will have to explain to your
less tech-savvy family members or friends, who you've helped install
Guix, why upgrading all of your packages is such a tedious operation,
that involves this funny command line thing. I've been there and done
that. It all makes sense if you take a little time to
explain/understand it properly.
Regards,
Leo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2021-04-23 13:41 bug#47971: Improve Guix commands for update/upgrade bo0od
2021-04-23 14:15 ` Christopher Baines
2021-04-23 14:46 ` bo0od
2021-04-23 15:16 ` Bone Baboon via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2021-04-23 16:23 ` bo0od
2021-04-23 18:50 ` Leo Prikler
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