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spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.19 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tutanota.com header.s=s1 header.b=oR4+erd6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 723576501 X-Spam-Score: -4.19 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: tUguu5ExZDpV Sorry! I honestly didn't see the author reasoning for using feminine words.= Thank you so much for pointing me to the relevant notes. According to their reasoning, using made up neutrals like "-x" or "-e" make= automatic reading or autocorrection difficult, and=C2=A0 using "-as/os" wo= uld be too verbose. While I agree with the author on those, we should have = in mind that from the moment we decide to use inclusive language we have to= make sacrifices. That's an inescapable fact, since the inclusive language = options in Spanish when neutral masculines referring to people can't be avo= ided, are either a) made-up and aren't grammatically correct, or b) too ver= bose. So someone should decide what the priority is whenever neutral mascul= ines can't be avoided. - If we care more about inclusive language and don't mind using made up neu= trals, we can use "lx usuarix root" (-x) or "le usuarie root" (-e). This is= inclusive, but not grammatically correct and sacrifices readability. - If we care about inclusive language and correctness, we can use "el/la us= uario/a root", "la o el usuario root" or "la usuaria o usuario root" (-as/-= os). This is inclusive, grammatically correct, but adds verbosity and minor= ities claim that doesn't address non-binary people. - If we only care about readability and correctness, we can use masculines = as neutrals: "el usuario root". This is grammatically correct and used/unde= rstood by most, but isn't considered inclusive language. There isn't a perfect solution, and while I personally prefer the (-e) or (= -x), I'm fine if any other approach is accepted, even if it's the third one= . But, as you also pointed out, using feminine forms as neutrals by default= isn't appropiate. It has the worst of all worlds: is purposely exclusive, = uncommon and grammatically incorrect. I'm also clueless about the author in= tentions, all I know is that the Spanish word for "people" being feminine d= oesn't justify swapping all the people-related words to their feminine coun= terparts. --=20 Sincerely, L. F. Vega 8 ago 2022, 13:01 por bug-guix@gnu.org: > FWIW author cites: > > https://guix.gnu.org/es/manual/es/guix.es.html#DOCF50 > > As the reason for using feminine words. > > https://guix.gnu.org/es/manual/es/guix.es.html#FOOT50 > > Quoting from the manual: > > >NdT: En esta traducci=C3=B3n se ha optado por usar el femenino para refe= rirse a personas, ya que es el g=C3=A9nero gramatical de dicha palabra. Aun= que las construcciones impersonales pueden adoptarse en la mayor=C3=ADa de = casos, tambi=C3=A9n pueden llegar a ser muy artificiales en otros usos del = castellano; en ocasiones son directamente imposibles. Algunas construccione= s que proponen la neutralidad de g=C3=A9nero dificultan la lectura autom=C3= =A1tica (-x), o bien dificultan la correcci=C3=B3n autom=C3=A1tica (-e), o = bien aumentan significativamente la redundancia y reducen del mismo modo la= velocidad en la lectura (-as/os, -as y -os). No obstante, la adopci=C3=B3n= del genero neutro heredado del lat=C3=ADn, el que en castellano se ha unid= o con el masculino, como construcci=C3=B3n neutral de g=C3=A9nero se consid= era inaceptable, ya que ser=C3=ADa equivalente al =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=9D en i= ngl=C3=A9s, nada m=C3=A1s lejos de la intenci=C3=B3n de las autoras origina= les del texto. > > >En esta traducci=C3=B3n se ha optado por usar el femenino para referirse= a personas, ya que es el g=C3=A9nero gramatical de dicha palabra. > > Yes, right, "personas" is feminine, but doesn't mean "usuario" has to be = changed > to a feminine word just because the word we use to designate people is fe= minine, > it has no relation. An user can not only represent people, but an organiz= ation, > a team, etc. > > >la adopci=C3=B3n del genero neutro heredado del lat=C3=ADn, el que en ca= stellano se ha unido con el masculino, como construcci=C3=B3n neutral de g= =C3=A9nero se considera inaceptable > > That's not a fact, it's an opinion, and a very personal one. > > >nada m=C3=A1s lejos de la intenci=C3=B3n de las autoras originales del t= exto. > > This one, here it's written as "autoras" as feminine when "autores" is al= ready > a neutral word, it's doesn't refer to a man nor a woman, just a group of = people > that authored something. So, if Spanish has already gendered words, with = masculine, > feminine and neutral, and a neutral word is already available, then what'= s the real > intention of the author of that foot note? > > --- > > I feel like the guideline for writing using neutral words was taken out o= f context > and abused for personal purposes. > > =E2=80=94 > Jean-Pierre De Jesus DIAZ >