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* bug#43303: GCC package name
@ 2020-09-10  5:20 Jeffrey Walton
  2020-09-10  6:18 ` Malte Gerdes
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey Walton @ 2020-09-10  5:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 43303

Hi Everyone,

It took me about 15 minutes to install GCC on Guix because Guix named
the GCC package libgccjit.

I understand Guix package manager is powerful. I think you should use
an alias feature (or whatever it is called under Guix), and create and
few aliases to help with administration:

   gcc -> libgccjit
   g++ -> libgccjit
   gcc-c++ -> libgccjit

These are the names developers expect for the compiler. They don't
expect a name like libgccjit.

With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as expected.

Without the aliases (and absent a sane package name), people have to
lookup the documentation and read how to use the package manager for a
simple task like installing the compiler. When 50 or 100 developers
waste 15 minutes of their time, that's about 1 man-week wasted.
There's no reason to waste man-weeks on simple tasks.

Thanks in advance.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10  5:20 bug#43303: GCC package name Jeffrey Walton
@ 2020-09-10  6:18 ` Malte Gerdes
  2020-09-10  8:34 ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Malte Gerdes @ 2020-09-10  6:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: noloader; +Cc: 43303

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1156 bytes --]

Hi,

the GCC package itself isn't to useful. I think you are looking for the
gcc-toolchain package which installs GCC, binutils and libc.

Malte

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 07:22 Jeffrey Walton, <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> It took me about 15 minutes to install GCC on Guix because Guix named
> the GCC package libgccjit.
>
> I understand Guix package manager is powerful. I think you should use
> an alias feature (or whatever it is called under Guix), and create and
> few aliases to help with administration:
>
>    gcc -> libgccjit
>    g++ -> libgccjit
>    gcc-c++ -> libgccjit
>
> These are the names developers expect for the compiler. They don't
> expect a name like libgccjit.
>
> With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as
> expected.
>
> Without the aliases (and absent a sane package name), people have to
> lookup the documentation and read how to use the package manager for a
> simple task like installing the compiler. When 50 or 100 developers
> waste 15 minutes of their time, that's about 1 man-week wasted.
> There's no reason to waste man-weeks on simple tasks.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1670 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10  5:20 bug#43303: GCC package name Jeffrey Walton
  2020-09-10  6:18 ` Malte Gerdes
@ 2020-09-10  8:34 ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: zimoun @ 2020-09-10  8:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: noloader; +Cc: 43303

Dear,

Thank you for the feedback.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 07:22, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

> It took me about 15 minutes to install GCC on Guix because Guix named
> the GCC package libgccjit.

It is a common "mistake" and there is an entry in the manual about that:

https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#The-GCC-toolchain

Moreover, I am not sure what you want is 'libgccjit' but 'gcc-toolchain'.


> These are the names developers expect for the compiler. They don't
> expect a name like libgccjit.

However, you are right.  Something is wrong with "guix search", for example:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
guix search gcc | recsel -p name,relevance | head -11
name: libgccjit
relevance: 11

name: gccmakedep
relevance: 11

name: gccgo
relevance: 11

name: gcc-toolchain
relevance: 11
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

It is unfortunate and the synopsis of 'libgccjit' should be more
descriptive than "GNU Compiler Collection".


> With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as expected.

As said above, the right command is "guix install gcc-toolchain".

> Without the aliases (and absent a sane package name), people have to
> lookup the documentation and read how to use the package manager for a
> simple task like installing the compiler. When 50 or 100 developers
> waste 15 minutes of their time, that's about 1 man-week wasted.
> There's no reason to waste man-weeks on simple tasks.

I understand the frustration.  What could be improved in the manual?

How did you process after

  $ guix install gcc
  guix install: error: gcc: unknown package

?  Which terms did you use with "guix search"?


All the best,
simon




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10  5:20 bug#43303: GCC package name Jeffrey Walton
  2020-09-10  6:18 ` Malte Gerdes
  2020-09-10  8:34 ` zimoun
@ 2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 11:22   ` Jeffrey Walton
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2020-09-10 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jeffrey Walton; +Cc: 43303

Hi Jeffrey,

Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> skribis:

> It took me about 15 minutes to install GCC on Guix because Guix named
> the GCC package libgccjit.

I’m sorry to hear it caused you so much trouble and actually led you to
install the “wrong” package.

> With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as expected.

I’ve now added such an alias:

  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=f17e1802ec325e5cc86d4908f05ac69aafdf39da

I’ll install ‘gcc-toolchain’, which is explained here:

  https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Application-Setup.html#The-GCC-toolchain

Thanks,
Ludo’.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
@ 2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 11:32     ` Ricardo Wurmus
  2020-09-11 16:11     ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 11:22   ` Jeffrey Walton
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: zimoun @ 2020-09-10 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Jeffrey Walton, 43303

Hi Ludo,

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 12:41, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:

> > With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as expected.
>
> I’ve now added such an alias:
>
>   https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=f17e1802ec325e5cc86d4908f05ac69aafdf39da

Nice use of deprecated-package. :-)

About discoverability (guix search gcc) there is still 2 issues:

 1. libgccjit inherits from gcc-9 but the synopsis/description is not updated.
 2. gccgo uses custom-gcc and so reuse the same synopsis/description.

The #1 is easy to fix -- I can send a patch which precises the
synopsis/description of libgccjit.

What is the best for #2?  Add 2 optional arguments to 'custom-gcc'
(synopsis and description)?  Other?


Last, it is unfortunate that the package gccmakedep has the exact same
number of occurence of the term 'gcc' but it is not an issue.

Cheers,
simon




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
@ 2020-09-10 11:22   ` Jeffrey Walton
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey Walton @ 2020-09-10 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: 43303

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 6:33 AM Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeffrey,
>
> Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> skribis:
>
> > It took me about 15 minutes to install GCC on Guix because Guix named
> > the GCC package libgccjit.
>
> I’m sorry to hear it caused you so much trouble and actually led you to
> install the “wrong” package.

Lol... Yeah, I found out libgccjit was not right either.

> > With the aliases in place, a command like 'guix install gcc' works as expected.
>
> I’ve now added such an alias:
>
>   https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=f17e1802ec325e5cc86d4908f05ac69aafdf39da

Perfect, thanks.

> I’ll install ‘gcc-toolchain’, which is explained here:
>
>   https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Application-Setup.html#The-GCC-toolchain

Thanks.

I was working from
https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-package.html
and the search command.

Jeff




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
@ 2020-09-10 11:32     ` Ricardo Wurmus
  2020-09-10 11:43       ` zimoun
  2020-09-11 16:11     ` zimoun
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ricardo Wurmus @ 2020-09-10 11:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zimoun; +Cc: noloader, 43303


zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:

> About discoverability (guix search gcc) there is still 2 issues:
>
>  1. libgccjit inherits from gcc-9 but the synopsis/description is not updated.
>  2. gccgo uses custom-gcc and so reuse the same synopsis/description.
>
> The #1 is easy to fix -- I can send a patch which precises the
> synopsis/description of libgccjit.

Sounds good!

> What is the best for #2?  Add 2 optional arguments to 'custom-gcc'
> (synopsis and description)?  Other?

custom-gcc returns a package value, so we can inherit from that and
overwrite the synopsis and description fields.

-- 
Ricardo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 11:32     ` Ricardo Wurmus
@ 2020-09-10 11:43       ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 13:22         ` Ricardo Wurmus
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: zimoun @ 2020-09-10 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ricardo Wurmus; +Cc: Jeffrey Walton, 43303

Hi Ricardo,

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 13:31, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:

> > What is the best for #2?  Add 2 optional arguments to 'custom-gcc'
> > (synopsis and description)?  Other?
>
> custom-gcc returns a package value, so we can inherit from that and
> overwrite the synopsis and description fields.

Well, custom-gcc is already an inherit.  So it seems awkward to inherit twice.
But yes, since it is the only case, it could be the simplest:
gccgo-4.9 would become only 'define' and a new 'gccgo' would be
inherit from gccgo-4.9 and would be define-public.

Cheers,
simon




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 11:43       ` zimoun
@ 2020-09-10 13:22         ` Ricardo Wurmus
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ricardo Wurmus @ 2020-09-10 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zimoun; +Cc: Jeffrey Walton, 43303


zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 13:31, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:
>
>> > What is the best for #2?  Add 2 optional arguments to 'custom-gcc'
>> > (synopsis and description)?  Other?
>>
>> custom-gcc returns a package value, so we can inherit from that and
>> overwrite the synopsis and description fields.
>
> Well, custom-gcc is already an inherit.  So it seems awkward to
> inherit twice.

Nobody will ever know when just looking at the final package.  :)

-- 
Ricardo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#43303: GCC package name
  2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
  2020-09-10 11:32     ` Ricardo Wurmus
@ 2020-09-11 16:11     ` zimoun
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: zimoun @ 2020-09-11 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: Jeffrey Walton, 43303

Dear,

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 13:16, zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> wrote:

> About discoverability (guix search gcc) there is still 2 issues:
>
>  1. libgccjit inherits from gcc-9 but the synopsis/description is not updated.
>  2. gccgo uses custom-gcc and so reuse the same synopsis/description.

[...]

> Last, it is unfortunate that the package gccmakedep has the exact same
> number of occurence of the term 'gcc' but it is not an issue.

The patches #43342 <http://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/43342> tries to
fix these 3 items.


All the best,
simon




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-11 16:12 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-10  5:20 bug#43303: GCC package name Jeffrey Walton
2020-09-10  6:18 ` Malte Gerdes
2020-09-10  8:34 ` zimoun
2020-09-10 10:33 ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-09-10 11:16   ` zimoun
2020-09-10 11:32     ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-10 11:43       ` zimoun
2020-09-10 13:22         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 16:11     ` zimoun
2020-09-10 11:22   ` Jeffrey Walton

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