From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id YMWcKf5x5F79KQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 06:28:14 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id +A50Jf5x5F5RLAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 06:28:14 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D78F7940391 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 06:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52950 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jjzeE-000775-VO for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:28:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jjze6-00075F-9v for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:28:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57450) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jjze6-0001Zt-1q for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:28:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jjze5-0004yl-U4 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:28:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#41710: Possibly found a bug while doing a "guix pull" Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?L=C3=A9on?= Lain Delysid Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 06:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41710 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Received: via spool by 41710-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D41710.159202966719115 (code D ref 41710); Sat, 13 Jun 2020 06:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 41710-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2020 06:27:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40763 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jjzdr-0004yE-2c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:27:47 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f41.google.com ([209.85.218.41]:36228) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jjzdo-0004xx-VG for 41710-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2020 02:27:45 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f41.google.com with SMTP id dr13so12194787ejc.3 for <41710-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 23:27:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lVhVMYVK4IgzQvFl3B9MLGaohBbTl6jmZgzoRHNjyP4=; b=WU9IrKsQ6nrL7Uo83glOqGMkLDhMi2CMDiGVMukaluBd+bHko25SQvtBs0SJV8oavL R0ThQlW7GsnpgcbajDxU8hVkXsMIuKeAQSiO/KE5Rpe8loJL6Ay6SXCt/xtyZvKT8zGb goMLRfqdRPlMvoHs704HF4+cCadC5xUitlsbnWMdXs98d3g69MNMjunSlW28IOhhPynL xCLnx54cdUif0SOGHV/b1U8ZY0uefomGY2Pl0cZnBlr5jEKDPmQAKaaVC1lmTPY2/+OL TfseMoRw/UsC16ITlFiFBeKy5XT7JLHXJGtREfkr/6r8XQYDEf5yw40PqTn9Gpx0utns vazA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lVhVMYVK4IgzQvFl3B9MLGaohBbTl6jmZgzoRHNjyP4=; b=o/n5zRC7ZBOkCqAhzjF0HJOvE/aTFpgzVEsROKGYDJNXv+/f1SJz1ivL9HbAGFOkSs JEXbUqP3mhkA7iU9vhh4lrVcqamHyxnxHB9cnm6+vngxIl/oHP3FQ6rqi2tfP94KvQbA R2F5Fl1oL9xBHZO6UW9PoiwW27WTrglUwqTSbmH1ayiEgRMpcDPYQL+enV6Y0P/WlzBB TcvlEcb2cQjd0JB4GfwKJkSNZtW7x1K6bHFDpvkuBCOIcSb1kbvB548uq8uPZVxKQ1VZ 2VrWqpqwtRHMogp9S+Uz+Xv2Ij1BXfM9WdR9nw6ov6NxE+eJtoAz/4VGMAGwFo6dg6rZ 9FNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OOVORhT0WQFzQvZwTuhqnQ7+WfeWE1wsFgtYLTXud9/k1ZKzC XCS9LdUpbJ3QfF3purQPJMQpvu2t7tqaRTGaSD4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy87uy//SOe17v17KK19KFRfT29+6o1Ni/s0CrUEFwzLizZI+Pjvh4+X3/qy9d7UdQlHFxtyhTGWzJQKYYEsK8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9484:: with SMTP id dm4mr17412320ejc.56.1592029658932; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 23:27:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87a71guy5m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wo4ir67g.fsf@gnu.org> <20200608130257.66286fbd@scratchpost.org> <87v9jzdpdh.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <87v9jzdpdh.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?L=C3=A9on?= Lain Delysid Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 11:55:05 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004aeada05a7f14ade" X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: 41710-done@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=WU9IrKsQ; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.09 X-TUID: fBeb6jPoXe6p --0000000000004aeada05a7f14ade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's really weird. I thought EXT3/4 was the best of the best? If the files were user documents, I would be pissed. Well, we can't have perfect computer programs out of the box. And then again, I did say my system crashed in a very violent way (twice). I had only one window open: the terminal with the "guix pull" running, but it might have been some other program running in the background that froze my system. The command was running, and then all of a sudden, the whole system froze. The screen was frozen, the mouse, and even the keyboard. Then after a minute, it rebooted by itself. That's a pretty violent crash. On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 15:25 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > Hello, > > Danny Milosavljevic skribis: > > > On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 01:15:46 +0200 > > L=C3=A9on Lain Delysid wrote: > > > >>or > >> if my system crashing twice during a pull command somehow broke it, > > > > Probably. > > > >>but I > >> hope this feedback helped. > > > > It sure helped. It's good to know that that can happen. > > > > I remember the first time I used Guix, I picked some file system that > would > > keep doing that: leave empty files if the system crashed (among lots of > other > > things). And that system crashed a lot. I had the same result as you, > > and a lot of additional problems. > > > > Back then we already improved a lot of places that were really really > > important (added fsync calls), so the remaining places should be quite > > harmless--like this one. Because of Guix, you can always rebuild > > /gnu/store just as it was--after a long build time maybe, but it's > possible > > (could be made a LOT more usable, though). > > > > (fsync degrades performance, so it makes no sense to fsync for > /gnu/store) > > > > I think we can't really do more without imposing undue mainentance > burden on > > us (for something the file system shouldn't be doing in the first place= ), > > or we could recommend another file system or different file system > options > > in the manual. What would the latter be? > > > > Also, how it the world didn't the file system checker fsck > > > > (1) automatically run and > > (2) fix this > > > > in your case? > > Yeah, that=E2=80=99s really weird. I never experienced it first-hand, bu= t it=E2=80=99s > not the first time we have such a report. > > Ext4 & co. reportedly can leave empty files upon crashes; perhaps that=E2= =80=99s > a problem with those file systems (though I=E2=80=99ve always used ext2/3= /4 and > never had this problem myself, but that=E2=80=99s not statically signific= ant). > > Anyway, closing. > > Thank you, L=C3=A9on! > > Ludo=E2=80=99. > --0000000000004aeada05a7f14ade Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's really weird. I thought EXT3/4 was the best of= the best? If the files were user documents, I would be pissed. Well, we ca= n't have perfect computer programs out of the box.
And= then again, I did say my system crashed in a very violent way (twice). I h= ad only one window open: the terminal with the "guix pull" runnin= g, but it might have been some other program running in the background that= froze my system. The command was running, and then all of a sudden, the wh= ole system froze. The screen was frozen, the mouse, and even the keyboard. = Then after a minute, it rebooted by itself. That's a pretty violent cra= sh.

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 15:25 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
Hello,

Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@scratchpost.org> skribis:

> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 01:15:46 +0200
> L=C3=A9on Lain Delysid <leon.lain.delysid@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
>
>>or
>> if my system crashing twice during a pull command somehow broke it= ,
>
> Probably.
>
>>but I
>> hope this feedback helped.
>
> It sure helped.=C2=A0 It's good to know that that can happen.
>
> I remember the first time I used Guix, I picked some file system that = would
> keep doing that: leave empty files if the system crashed (among lots o= f other
> things).=C2=A0 And that system crashed a lot.=C2=A0 I had the same res= ult as you,
> and a lot of additional problems.
>
> Back then we already improved a lot of places that were really really<= br> > important (added fsync calls), so the remaining places should be quite=
> harmless--like this one.=C2=A0 Because of Guix, you can always rebuild=
> /gnu/store just as it was--after a long build time maybe, but it's= possible
> (could be made a LOT more usable, though).
>
> (fsync degrades performance, so it makes no sense to fsync for /gnu/st= ore)
>
> I think we can't really do more without imposing undue mainentance= burden on
> us (for something the file system shouldn't be doing in the first = place),
> or we could recommend another file system or different file system opt= ions
> in the manual.=C2=A0 What would the latter be?
>
> Also, how it the world didn't the file system checker fsck
>
> (1) automatically run and
> (2) fix this
>
> in your case?

Yeah, that=E2=80=99s really weird.=C2=A0 I never experienced it first-hand,= but it=E2=80=99s
not the first time we have such a report.

Ext4 & co. reportedly can leave empty files upon crashes; perhaps that= =E2=80=99s
a problem with those file systems (though I=E2=80=99ve always used ext2/3/4= and
never had this problem myself, but that=E2=80=99s not statically significan= t).

Anyway, closing.

Thank you, L=C3=A9on!

Ludo=E2=80=99.
--0000000000004aeada05a7f14ade--