From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id uB+nMC9UpWABKQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 20:08:47 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id ANdgLC9UpWAyawAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 18:08:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2343D37C for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 20:08:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37526 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljQcg-0002zc-5W for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 14:08:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNFu-0006Cv-Jv for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 10:33:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:48856) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNFu-0001xS-Ba for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 10:33:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNFu-0005Lf-8t for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 10:33:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#48331: Emacs' describe-package doesn't work for packages managed by guix Resent-From: Andrew Tropin Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 14:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 48331 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler Received: via spool by 48331-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B48331.162143475620505 (code B ref 48331); Wed, 19 May 2021 14:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 48331) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2021 14:32:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNFT-0005Kf-Pd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 May 2021 14:07:53 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: 48331@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxim Cournoyer Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621447727; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:resent-cc:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references: list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: dkim-signature; bh=Yg8aDPRq+PeUjqtkPOcs6YiX34Wd/Sc8+S9OKLMrrGk=; b=tHpXLiJJ2BcDxZVe9mk0EF4YTjVB7xuh1ZpPB23POPP86uOtiwldUwSd9wp51Z3ScfdDv4 gKrYPsd0Y0xxJPfREYm3NAt+79VmymW25+IBWYI+CxurS7CzHO5jueeYBy7QAKMLsqwu7Y 0ddV0ptA45ouTYPC7gNGsEJaQOgrYHtMISrS5eIT+74ywJ1upMOyikDf0w72QZsRqMPqMS 5U6o83dioCQYpl6Ik41a88cyhU/M1fTLfzG4SwGC+YBlj3/MEgbIr9PBUPTzxDaU3a8atL aVBw7fc60qu2L5ZCHYjuMBasprlwp7ieAKbqsWl1msTDeUlUsAfMiWs700ifYg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621447727; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fr/1QquzwyTIUtpc58cuv4m6XRtbkTsmaZpX1Pon6LwDZ3IjPPs3EjWeuUi5XhBxlKLVpP CciJVAP48ESuCOKhFHBoNGBDTtkAQWpfiqDrHWa/pWwqmeeivb/CrGC8VOtRBSrifDELuM EuLXIj2w1AfehOj5oViYBjWskwMHrzzs0cLckSzEGSmD7vL+bX+pDvw3AEOuIFxY7flL4l 0R0Xk7eeGOujn1RgvESYUs/qIScG757ZOzazni+CDho+REGVTY/q/ipkIjlTeBxD9SkcSe B5NMOuUQG+EGleETDHqb4XIWiljxmGVih+MgPKU2HPcIkr8Lvs+tLqXzVcfxaA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=trop-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=VavXJZF9; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.44 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=trop-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=VavXJZF9; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: F2343D37C X-Spam-Score: -1.44 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: O06CbF8rsQ5S > > Most other package managers seem to respect "infrastructure" provided > > by package.el. > I don't think that statement is well-supported by the data we have. Agree, that was an incorrect statement. I should have said something like: there are some popular tools like use-package configuration helper, Nix package manager, Spacemacs configuration framework, some elisp archives and probably something else, which utilize and follow package.el. Not all of them use package.el itself, but they follow conventions and describe-package help command and some other work correctly. > Why should we let ELPA dictate our layout? I have not even once tried > customizing package.el for actual use since I got Guix, because the > elpa importer is trivial. We don't have to. Actually, I'm very happy with the new (current) layout we have right now. I would say I find the following use case very confusing for newcomers: - Install emacs package via Guix. - Use built-in help C-h C-h, find C-h P. - Get it to work for built-in packages, but not for packages installed by Guix. - Get frustrated. I think we could avoid this at least in two ways: 1. Use elpa/ subdirectory. 2. Keep current structure, set package-directory-list to .../site-lisp instead of .../site-lisp/elpa by default. > Thus we're not trying to keep in line with any specific package > manager, we just need to make things work "with Emacs" in the sense > that packages installed via Guix should have working autoloads and one > should be able to (require ...) them. Yes, but at the same time I don't see reasons why not to implement one of two options above. We can get both: working autoloads and working built-in help function (+newcommers won't be so frustrated). Personally, I'm quite happy that packages got their own subdirectories and I'm fully satisfied with current state of it, but it would be cool if inexperienced users will be able to use at least built-in help commands for packages out of the box without additional configuration. Hope my original point is a little better worded now. -- Best regards, Andrew Tropin