From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id +PaQDMFiomLqYwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 23:14:41 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id SIOvDMFiomKiHQEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 23:14:41 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C38009D84 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2022 23:14:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPUF-0002MD-Vb for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:14:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPSj-0002Kt-9V for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:13:05 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:54095) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPSg-00070l-71 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:13:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPSf-0006QU-VN for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:13:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 21:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46385 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: soheil@disroot.org, Maxime Devos , 46385@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 46385-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46385.165480917624688 (code B ref 46385); Thu, 09 Jun 2022 21:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 46385) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2022 21:12:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPSZ-0006Q8-U5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:12:56 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f178.google.com ([209.85.160.178]:44720) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzPSV-0006Po-6x for 46385@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:12:54 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f178.google.com with SMTP id t21so11079730qtw.11 for <46385@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:12:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z+znWtzq8OcPCSBlWwaRQvIaditOcMv+Mgq93GZ+Xsc=; b=V+d25M8hriTUkzL+ZLC2hVCpVT/nRG+8PjYzGocmAs4o+CL1icg4IAbDHmRTiXDXGK tMflMKjdwTq3FyE641PkzDegkCeOXv/t+Cd0s5AXrLQMJKbWocAusr+Bap1/j4WuHqeb 1mka2WJkf31a9Yym5Xhsp4wYBbg4Xoqiwm5rUBhKvbv8LVJa2wAjQWusv0rVdYm/pokX YTH2RRgvUermz59DqQb37rvKQddSNUbRLEDNv3XjMPI556bLqKzq8DbBhxwasw/hrfKu RPfHijcy4f7hdAfr7d/mOQKCiTGpCho/g4k2y1+qvdQiaFnk4nYAIIUZSSjxLySqdMpW visA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z+znWtzq8OcPCSBlWwaRQvIaditOcMv+Mgq93GZ+Xsc=; b=fQL23WQAcQP8CrmyiEkxfb8mKCydSi3jVVUEVIKT2g1OzydBHx15UcdKL7wrP7pdwq phfVrIRwB5F1CX5sqUa9yWo/9l6KFp2SmgccCinAdpglml6GFwrZmhen+s3pwdpCV/Z0 YYH6OgGi8p3+PU3908/P+jrDKjZ7D4Odax+o4aXLrLIjZ5svXO5o561d6/Z4fR371Wqq E+uoHLC2OeA7Dns6rQ/iPX7vCRBMc3sWOsEcisL4AG8jteqEnJfez9ZAH6bpnd6jUigw txLK9I9QXt4/29sYlrMfHhSDdh9FaA/P+Sm2GNJDMwW/FjKJUjpFYtnyNatdHV9DatVj dyQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531dmy0JDqcf75maWNcbGB26JTDWCfT6Tm+IQ048v5EXqEHqzm5Z hYvew4QbvdRwGE5sM7PWM0adep8SebwVO7PW X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx6yRdfac8o9bniI6AWw7EXLB2WnOCR6CSGNeVhlHFywRFYzcRrEDM0GwzqGFGfJ4Confy1fQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5c4b:0:b0:304:ecce:6d77 with SMTP id j11-20020ac85c4b000000b00304ecce6d77mr19588814qtj.75.1654809165076; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-155-254.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.155.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2-20020a05620a244200b006a691904891sm17750099qkn.16.2022.06.09.14.12.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:12:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87v9aokrph.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:12:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87v9aokrph.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2021 16:22:34 +0100") Message-ID: <87wndph779.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1654809280; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=z+znWtzq8OcPCSBlWwaRQvIaditOcMv+Mgq93GZ+Xsc=; b=Q5xuBNeJpWfOm9cy+f20Ro6JrEbpTK4fvhUuA4QAId+Pzahw9N4q7u61e38km1O/JKlacM 76NHHD7NSgHtYf2ZqEfggtsNIoj7pGkQ13uUUcQqPoXy1rYPDiwDDknouAjL3Q9OiszXOn 5+h/aaoqiFTgZsgCTwoRclZeEbIsx5jFjRdpp6SQTFx0JUqEwWxmz8PVDumx1cpopFZ80b TCyKjOI97EH5E5SeY6zcv+qruiV5NK4/iWx/uhuhSgShpb00C9CuEGN2769uP6rAHa1oKk ZW/tabUAP5JMYkOcG/cKSOWHFzNP5/xBq3xpFtCRsDYqXR3es0B0kI7EyaqIcA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1654809280; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pJrc+ON0sB/87fPZf7GzooFSPQGt7XfzG981eXxJFLahKNtrX5uQU8jB33T8BdyWDbocha +/24UNmYKkNTvXkajpXl92KD2uycHqmb/9venmYYj0cu7j/pAwgeJRbM5ZDo9amquVt/Ah nhLdAIrwppxbBFy+1N4a+ZfCAsVZ5Pe95AvI2O1efdU24rzUJSlPeYU721h4qfZDH7BHm4 tMXqdA2tUzU5wsBQfBp9ic4VjabqFpMb+HO0rFTvZ7e3U9bd1vTxizNth4QsPDYzN9rJJG CT1YNRsYqjvSuroGZYf4Wtki4YL0klOjTbDkGGQ529utVnqdVHFQHJQQdporpg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=V+d25M8h; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.70 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=V+d25M8h; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C38009D84 X-Spam-Score: 6.70 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: sgtIIdAaGFwl Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >> * ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?) >> * tracking (should be patched out if possible) >> * non-free-network-services >> * non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but mayb= e in a channel) >> >> The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2= =80=99 would need to >> be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2= =80=99 code >> should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features. > > I=E2=80=99m sympathetic with the idea of raising awareness of those > anti-features. However, I don=E2=80=99t see a clear way we could =E2=80= =9Cdefine=E2=80=9D each > possible anti-feature; some are definitely ill-defined (for instance, a > service is neither =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D nor =E2=80=9Cnon-free=E2=80=9D = in the same sense as software > can be free or non-free.) It=E2=80=99s also not entirely clear to me how= the UI > could make good use of it. I agree. It's not well defined, and to me following the FSDG seems an already good warranty that you're getting only free software from a project dedicated to fixing any freedom issues that may be discovered. > That said, there are anti-features that we have always patched out in > the past, such as tracking/=E2=80=9Cphoning home=E2=80=9D and auto-upgrad= es. Perhaps we > could formalize that in our packaging guidelines? It'd be good to have this documented, indeed. Thanks, Maxim