From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id +B7iLjKzEGP9ewEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:27:14 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id YG3gLjKzEGMOmAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:27:14 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38F6F2CBAC for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2022 15:24:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41436 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTkAu-0003Co-TA for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:24:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50888) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTk62-00061z-KN for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:19:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51853) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTk62-0002Yw-B5 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:19:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTk62-0000pU-6Q for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:19:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55898: Services depending on new Shepherd features may fail until reboot Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 13:19:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55898 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: Maxime Devos , 55898@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55898-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55898.16620382903122 (code B ref 55898); Thu, 01 Sep 2022 13:19:02 +0000 Received: (at 55898) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Sep 2022 13:18:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTk5C-0000oI-Hn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:18:10 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:41918) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTk5A-0000o5-V2 for 55898@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:18:09 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id c20so13309730qtw.8 for <55898@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 06:18:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:references:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject :date; bh=QNlfrXDLpasbpErdg7VwMnVWfdB6mmCftMVzFN+I6YU=; b=oy/cZW1lY1D3anQ6QBBsrOdIEXnEiLcco/6nQ9YtAMkJY/3DFiazkdo8zkYVWxGBup Q4spEEDIdNwDYP51w6ls76TumjrroZAbZwfmy8wIjnWD6QsgSh+rmcu4wO7Y3Szocjcj KeU02hQpgtIw96MRp6oU39EEM6EYTxBPthfa04yaN/vIxd6vpxIke7ARw/L2shTmyn+6 VHKc/oD97rGujgbNcMVnzrNAzqBxrVgIWJPF8jCoUhnsee/W4ypqIkx8enLwSGQaCNsG mI1hwiKd+y+iXx6iaXWlAf6kvq1dNwRGfjfL+t0muAVc64voseh7yRMoxSixcfUaHBc7 PmIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:references:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=QNlfrXDLpasbpErdg7VwMnVWfdB6mmCftMVzFN+I6YU=; b=oVJNs2a0+HgFhPsnnWwrReWUMEGM9QLLlblvAHyZWmOV21yOCMqW2ded3pZDdh1tGN 5WPpNe9pUIHexZoFueKus7RGQGRd8qMQkSIc263hsNw1g1H6jNuzh1JZNXtryjT3QUSp cihMA2GdZ6E9/yXUAZ31S/JIV56BpTPaYlk0Rp3Uj7WaOxP6l/EwDN9jCyVaQ1VFLinw 1CGj+JbFivftjNgZY7rmr532XM0APghAKIo5MwcUVjbhHNmRGoEZxq11Z1apeFtn1Zxg +IxWwSt9RUe4G3tJGudEAq7uFIvOvzezNrckgN4ccUJKqy/Tjf8AUknSPQei2o4PtjE4 F/bA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3eTLXG75MEWpjeELh/kZmfq4Hrk8EPrZrWUqpQ/fM4Y1M1OUTZ RF48JHN8Ff7J5o5+ujVatjIxvlhVrtY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5xU2YjemTtrJ6kjiOUWgFwPw9jB8dD3movMAa73S6mwnawxxJ0l0YJsY/hMOiOb0gi/KHl1w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5d8f:0:b0:344:a747:abf1 with SMTP id d15-20020ac85d8f000000b00344a747abf1mr23704457qtx.273.1662038283134; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-128-104.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.128.104]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bk42-20020a05620a1a2a00b006aedb35d8a1sm12381507qkb.74.2022.09.01.06.18.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 01 Sep 2022 06:18:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87a6ajg2zv.fsf@gmail.com> <5521716772922285f7c6bc381c82613026eebbd9.camel@telenet.be> <87bkuvdoe4.fsf@gmail.com> <87r13ex7nw.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87mtdl2a7u.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87ilo9294m.fsf@gmail.com> <87a693pjm7.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87r12fqf6j.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1v75fo0.fsf@gnu.org> <8735debvz7.fsf@gmail.com> <878rn6423p.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:18:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <878rn6423p.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Tue, 30 Aug 2022 09:33:46 +0200") Message-ID: <87tu5r8c8m.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1662038646; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=QNlfrXDLpasbpErdg7VwMnVWfdB6mmCftMVzFN+I6YU=; b=cD53koFurDiv3J5pMgKHHEaD2qgiJKCfUHM36Tpxz/uojlHmVNHs/zQjjmeBdP4ANzST0n tFXgMhfNtzmG9FbNek8jQHj+VDNzZD4YtXKXFNp4IrwpF1KysBxLD1ZRLcqNAaKhp9g+Wx PCeUvqs7+RF+jzyoEz8XmUSDYX4xQHjdj/SHAGTjgk0fIeBkhBOj/Y3CHLvNwHff6HvQIY e30Rax/cL9frvNHfmTFEAxp+4g6ZxqMA2fq5LXY2BPfgw7EVSdZBr/pL7Jro+qiKVaU/qB qr5lEAdeYPbHAvN/pg+iuMNyI6sY4hCjNOY6Dji8jtzcLB0C9OALJJWWXaVBYg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1662038646; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=eN96NyvYqka2daj0ZTlCdsm5HtYl1sNwsw3JJSkYoUHsjT6PPxe9P/8t/Si1CntHdZ9M79 sWoRP5Z9zxeve5qS20SsVCOdfpwA9uYsndBEjjv/aFva2Y8RFRktgGLPUfM8QLVAmxTStq M2r/T3YgQ/9vXgFqQWVc82moIWXCKHea0ECbMkZfAhDJnl1zQGjgWsEeBQ0Z02nMr2Aokx pYGCR+OMMafnwcavMC+OIo3hvMVIMSIxeoHY6jFzCJkIo7vIxTJc5z6WmL7J/Jid69ajWr mDiuYvQzg8ePNrP43aApqlru+kir9rbdMwA3FmIlhyp9D+S1LiFGwLgk/bsIFw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="oy/cZW1l"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.23 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="oy/cZW1l"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 38F6F2CBAC X-Spam-Score: 6.23 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: jeE71ftXnwD+ Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi Maxim, > > Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > >> Agreed, but the context differs wildly: while Autoconf or browsers for >> example really are facing a diversity of configuration, the version of >> Shepherd used in Guix System is known and controlled. So the only >> problems bound to happen are in this context: >> >> 1. New Shepherd version introduced in Guix (package upgrade). >> >> 2. New Shepherd features used by services. >> >> 3. Machine reconfigured using a commit including 1 and 2. >> >> The problems are temporary: upon a reboot the running Shepherd version >> will be the latest, and have all the features needed. >> >> Hence my suggestion to use something simple to improve the user >> experience of a user faced with 3. > > So are you suggesting replacing: > > (defined? 'make-inetd-constructor) > > by something like: > > (version > or is it something different that you have in mind? I had something different on mind; I was thinking of some added field to our shepherd-service object where the minimal version of Shepherd required could be specified, e.g. "0.9.1". The check could be abstracted in the shepherd-service implementation, avoiding services writers to handle that by themselves in *each* service requiring so. The benefit would be an improved user experience, and cleaner service code. Upon reconfiguring a machine not yet equipped with a new enough Shepherd, Shepherd could print: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- The x, y and z services won't be started until the next reboot, as they require a newer Shepherd version. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Instead of seeing the new services fail to run without (for the end user) without any obvious reason. Does that make sense? Thanks, Maxim