From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id uCJpG6y98mLPNgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 22:03:56 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id yIxJG6y98mK3ggAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 22:03:56 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECACD3BD2A for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 22:03:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35048 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVSE-0004Nb-I5 for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:03:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVRO-0003TN-F8 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:03:04 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:55398) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVRO-0004yl-65 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:03:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVRN-0001Fa-SY for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:03:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#57046: Spanish documentation uses exclusive language Resent-From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 20:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 57046 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Csepp Cc: 57046@debbugs.gnu.org, ludo@gnu.org, rosen644835@gmail.com, reynaldo.cordero@gmail.com, ehespinosa57@gmail.com X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-guix@gnu.org, 57046@debbugs.gnu.org, Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Miguel =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=81ngel?= Arruga Vivas , Reynaldo Cordero , Emilio Herrera Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16600753574771 (code B ref -1); Tue, 09 Aug 2022 20:03:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2022 20:02:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVQy-0001Et-VZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:02:37 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:48902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVQx-0001Em-G3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:02:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51876) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVQv-000344-W1 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:02:34 -0400 Received: from relay.yourmailgateway.de ([188.68.63.97]:52313) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLVQt-0004pz-II; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 16:02:33 -0400 Received: from mors-relay-2501.netcup.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mors-relay-2501.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4M2P9r0SLcz4xpp; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 22:02:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from policy02-mors.netcup.net (unknown [46.38.225.53]) by mors-relay-2501.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4M2P9q71f5z4xnv; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 22:02:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at policy02-mors.netcup.net Received: from mxe217.netcup.net (unknown [10.243.12.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by policy02-mors.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4M2P9p4ZK2z8sWf; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 22:02:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from florianrock64 (ip5b40552a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [91.64.85.42]) by mxe217.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2FE38F0CF; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 22:02:13 +0200 (CEST) From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" References: <87r11qiztj.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <87edxp7cnq.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmh9cte6.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <874jyl5o4h.fsf@riseup.net> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 22:02:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <874jyl5o4h.fsf@riseup.net> (Csepp's message of "Tue, 09 Aug 2022 19:15:30 +0200") Message-ID: <87pmh99oe2.fsf@pelzflorian.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E2FE38F0CF X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.37 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; BAYES_HAM(-0.03)[57.10%]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-0.953]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3209, ipnet:91.64.0.0/14, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gnu.org,gmail.com,debbugs.gnu.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd-worker-8404 X-NC-CID: 5AkxaaSjLr/C1kmeslCc/nbUxCouwfBJJ2xH3UggJsp/Da0mCVIbUauZ Received-SPF: none client-ip=188.68.63.97; envelope-from=pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de; helo=relay.yourmailgateway.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1660075436; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=6U/TqYkZAiWiCe3ZKHklrBWxZoZQb7e96ARfqQVoH6s=; b=LjIMNm9IeXzY+c9kg4ZC49mufmYDhlcyMs6ELsyUzQ0Az5fSCzcOfqL7nRBVtO4fD+xLar /dLmwD7MSlk9/1/P7XOmBeZoteHziXGdpNRkm4rQ7YSMBupLOWde/tBLKiojCDdzCVIej+ jWKfqJ6+rdoz0iPPC47iY2qDEeK/Jn6xiOQrr8E4h0PLErroF2bkum1+DMgMwwk/Uq8beI vW5p2KEkUInUhEZndoQ0D9pYcqRJuwSE5VysxfZIqLC0CF2Emp71o00nbLMEq9Dv3aj/gw j9N0NMtYajjqTA5n4JNJNVmi2zw0vbLbBE7vz+CTuoa3i2ju1slAw/gVD6uoWQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1660075436; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NAzPaabOT1vn1LtD246AFYXfhsYE+5vt1uHSHFh4UiXbW2u9vhFxRmn1UCnAPBeFgRXCoJ dNyM/Ls1NTuq2IUsKxKyzVsTGviVuTDuJjMUzmvwjGi0IgJJFMamYjXA1oSqLei/LGguR8 Q2O1eIJvXFLSCj+zTKgnnezTKL+/62fevRipchSQU0Y8m838mBUnp+XqOFKGHwvLUkISRb D+Nzhp0w7NnENNlx4ArpMGLTAP3HUAAbNn5rFbwnzSx5AXKefnNiABZSAwgVvidNSOJPdD 32DldLU1OsoXb4ZBVfKnqopIioF/9hKWMbovqc+x8OK5jPUlehCy0EonoX9PCQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.59 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ECACD3BD2A X-Spam-Score: -1.59 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: cw08yDtGMB/i Thank you Csepp/raingloom for speaking up. Csepp writes: > Just a thought, but maybe it shouldn't be a group of men who decides > what language is and is not inclusive I believe we don=E2=80=99t disagree on what is=C2=A0/ is not inclusive. > and whether that's important. > We've had some Outreachy interns, maybe some of them wouldn't mind being > consulted on this. There has been plenty of debate elsewhere; no need to bother; I guess there won=E2=80=99t be consensus. Yes, we could have a policy without consensus. Actually there may be a majority in favor of using verbose speech that includes all. Like "Once the patch is committed in the Guix repository[=E2=80=A6]. Users= can obtain the new package definition simply by running guix pull" "Una vez el parche se haya incorporado al repositorio de Guix[=E2=80=A6]. = Las usuarias y los usuarios pueden obtener la nueva definici=C3=B3n de paquete ejecutando simplemente guix pull" But doing that for every such sentence seems bothersome to read even in cases when the sentence isn=E2=80=99t long already. For French this is don= e but not always. Should it still be policy? A strict or a lenient policy? We could also just leave it to the individual Weblate translators until an actual edit war occurs. Even generic las usuarias had bothered someone before on the Guix mailing lists but didn=E2=80=99t bother that muc= h. (I cannot find the link; it was a discussion involving Miguel =C3=81ngel Arruga Vivas and that he uses =E2=80=9CNew Spanish=E2=80=9D.) Though the translation has become stale anyway and doesn=E2=80=99t fit the English anymore; someone would need to update it. Then generic las usuarias stays until someone changes it on Weblate. Should this bug be closed then? > (Or we could do what Michael Warren Lucas does in his books: switch > between female, male, and neutral. I don't see how that would be > exclusive.) Well yeahh, yet another option. xD Regards, Florian