From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: bug#38529: Make --ad-hoc the default for guix environment proposed deprecation mechanism Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:51:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87o8w1mxjt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87eexeu8mo.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87k16vdise.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhfp2w11.fsf@web.de> <871rt03shq.fsf@web.de> <87zhfn3hgj.fsf@web.de> <87tv5upttv.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51006) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iii02-0006Xw-Vw for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:53:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iii00-0004Qa-N3 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:53:06 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:42742) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iihzy-0004PY-08 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:53:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iihzx-00053d-TW for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:53:01 -0500 Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87tv5upttv.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri, 20 Dec 2019 22:31:40 +0100") List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+gcggb-bug-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" To: Ricardo Wurmus Cc: GNU Guix maintainers , 38529@debbugs.gnu.org Hi! Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > I=E2=80=99m just chiming in here to say that feelings of frustration are = very > valid reasons to make or object to a change. Guix is or can be a very > important piece of software =E2=80=94 if it remains reliable in the toolb= ox of > those using it. > > It is difficult striking the right balance between exciting new features > that make things possible that were previously unattainable and > dependability through stable interfaces. > > The Guix command line is by far the most commonly used interface. We > can=E2=80=99t just claim that the Scheme API is stable (which it actually= isn=E2=80=99t) > and change the user-facing CLI as we please. Agreed. > Personally, I think that it is fine to introduce breaking changes, but > that for changes that are likely to have a high potential for annoyance > and frustration there ought to be a documented way to work around them. > Breaking changes must be communicated through version number bumps and > accompanying announcements. Yes, I think it is clear that we=E2=80=99d have to do this using all the to= ols at our disposal, including time. Konrad=E2=80=99s objection remains though: existing documents (papers, blog posts, MOOCs, etc.) that mention =E2=80=98guix environment=E2=80=99 would a= ll of a sudden become wrong if we were to change the defaults of =E2=80=98guix environment=E2=80=99. Even if we introduce a variable to restore the old behavior. Perhaps that=E2=80=99s unavoidable in the long run, but perhaps this is not= the right time for this. > While I don=E2=80=99t see how we can make it happen, I do find the idea o= f a > stable API whose version can be selected with an environment variable > intriguing and worth thinking about. If our Scheme API is as flexible > as we claim it shouldn=E2=80=99t be too hard to interpose a configuration= layer > between the core facilities and the =E2=80=9Cporcelain=E2=80=9D. You mean a stable Scheme API, or a stable CLI? To me, a stable CLI is definitely the goal. As for the Scheme API, I would distinguish core APIs, peripheral APIs (e.g., the importers), (gnu system =E2=80=A6) APIs, and packages. I=E2=80=99d aim for high stability f= or core APIs, be laxer for peripheral APIs, even laxer for the remaining. I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean about adding a configuration layer betwe= en the core facilities (the core Scheme APIs?) and the porcelain? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.