From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2DVdMEZD5mGqHAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 05:34:14 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id uNbZLUZD5mFrnwAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 05:34:14 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A1FB2465A for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 05:34:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48014 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gCD-0004W5-M5 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:34:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46110) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gC2-0004Vw-Lc for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:34:03 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:55674) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gC2-0005CU-CD for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:34:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gC2-00032L-2V for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:34:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52533: guix deploy breaks SSH access with a PAM error Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 04:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52533 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Received: via spool by 52533-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52533.164248042611647 (code B ref 52533); Tue, 18 Jan 2022 04:34:02 +0000 Received: (at 52533) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jan 2022 04:33:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48577 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gBl-00031n-Jq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:33:45 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f177.google.com ([209.85.222.177]:34350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n9gBi-00031X-Nj for 52533@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:33:44 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f177.google.com with SMTP id u3so11577208qku.1 for <52533@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 20:33:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lx05O6101KyhKgR3UnmeuMqHlUauTWVE8bssNGmcFCQ=; b=IoY6Vha/76AaDrsw6RUYUV1ljI8nSrIqmYAeiTjHnda+mt+52qeWtUj/6vQNC+38RZ 8xG4mS/0Zn3EHZvLZHzxGlYWIm5kCOnbG9clX8OuC9LbEU1XY+J3wQhFKrc/+Y7/I1VU 9lnITTiexufnOz9gxt6pktdA+7z0urF8nE53TEpa6kUYj5fGAvRoxuM4PTxLUL5jh9at CQddf/FabIgWpAr7rEZBbp16TS2LNBo3O0M2LrYw1ha/vK1LD4uFYIzjRNa2SM+gI2k1 ihtpuGeHTDk8gZdDwxJ8iARjVfetTP1A/RA8AYYHr5LfMbqW2Sb/H/Mo62h6cSQsTLsq RVTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lx05O6101KyhKgR3UnmeuMqHlUauTWVE8bssNGmcFCQ=; b=zotoaey68dXmrsQXIWJkVcSkeZ9Lsgcq6oyhDcHboLobTfxocYYe4Jj4JcA6V1r8Ek DMI4hQnyaL3Kicu4gpei1WGMXi/KGej+6Kc6hfwCNHP9YDLz+9SHPaAFAi9BKdIG0ssY wzrSvso8qU4CZwWEra+Dk4S99dUlopSTiYPNFM4XhUVlvsHjlszB7iBxTI6fpSjZ8N4o vj/4MzSCQZGCUex9StrM54B5IqqIGdarcZgIxmJuMAPlM/GZS7a09uCYe14rtL4DyHXv VZ8uguuLOIWtBqEiqqU63VOhsbKXR6/oKVMe6Gh2pIP0+nxBkbhK708CYEFMn1OvsYEn WxqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532nEQKvRf7TxYMfwrT/nrtmbXUha1ggrGFoC3zvldWTWnOVj7s9 fn/8G93mWD5zBTv0geuu8DTJpAvQaGA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGoUgAmyFpbKOysMb8e8ZRl2Nqs1siZZ1k0mNu58RYuTMdD9AD3BVcXuep3SG6bylCnkJ9WA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2550:: with SMTP id s16mr17179146qko.232.1642480416985; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 20:33:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from hurd (dsl-205-236-230-134.b2b2c.ca. [205.236.230.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bk14sm3283504qkb.35.2022.01.17.20.33.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 Jan 2022 20:33:36 -0800 (PST) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87czlx88ez.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilvor3sn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r19bom0r.fsf@gnu.org> <87tue77k40.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtjz1t63.fsf@gmail.com> <877daypk8r.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8yijsp6.fsf@gmail.com> <875yqimjc2.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:33:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <875yqimjc2.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Mon, 17 Jan 2022 17:13:17 +0100") Message-ID: <87h7a1irxc.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Mathieu Othacehe , 52533@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1642480454; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=lx05O6101KyhKgR3UnmeuMqHlUauTWVE8bssNGmcFCQ=; b=iox7GV2OMEaEvoNkeGQ5MxfzOxjqreJ+9cflxj/pxiXfz2frVADn5kvvfGNvTuHHzWWv+T pEP0hQU2k4HnaVFHYDCWkN+F21qGlkuOwoyYD/znA/LC0XBraYWq40NwIPpiZjwAY0S5L3 vB+kVl/lr0+z6LaCvBtk+GShjHPKGr84yQ15V8ocUyC2rDMtqF8GGV2PZ53PVkMpshZ7nl h2FtImBWddIR4oPqOjPka7WWeHJUemtsTwEmPfIwQsMhNOxVyWJgeeEn70f8gTT8WNHXHH B371tVJ0zXop3DgWTnaCtqgflQZg8qti82PoRCQLvRk/mRLIkSRNxLelDTLXBg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1642480454; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=RJpYyvXBJPYuRaSjbfupD3/tOztv61jbIdlkZF428h5XsR5OaKik3n/TS+THTBBQTB9Geh uYnHqpV0SH5LWvNM/u+nYNqIWAGtqj1UX2T5g9GFaAg4pg5hzRwxEBCUlYHqMCwHG9qg2w RRnSzYUFPY8r92NG4cpXox3ZpiJwaFW5S1OD11hmtqLVWJXqF/sdZdYMc5TH+0wJCkKLpg aHovScXTFc5mxFH/ngsreziYCH1JhYAMIp4JmjsoBor+YLiQeASHmJILGbh/cfyZqp5ZYi eeow7WtmMenPWfI54loNtM/XH8AopSfXmQYDotl2RsuFLNgvDHQLe/z7Ht7A/Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="IoY6Vha/"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.02 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="IoY6Vha/"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6A1FB2465A X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: mA4ghF8fSFFF Hi Ludovic! Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >> I'm not sure. The beauty of Shepherd, in my eyes, when compared to >> other init systems, is that it is lean and clean. Leveraging what's >> already out there (and part of GNU) seems an obvious path to me, as it: >> >> 1. Means less code to write, document and maintain. >> 2. Creates more cohesion between various components of the GNU project. > > Heheh, Guix was started to address #2 actually. Today, I think #2 is > okay but should not be an obstacle. I personally still think the idea is more than "okay"; I see value in it; one of the obvious benefits is documentation; most GNU packages come with Texinfo documentation, which makes for a nice, integrated experience. I also think that as the system becomes more established and integrate more of GNU, more GNU packages maintainers may be interested in joining and contributing (reaching some critical mass). > As for #1, sure, but Shepherd will need to grow a proper event loop > anyway, so socket activation won=E2=80=99t make much of a difference. If we keep it dumb and use inetd, it wouldn't, right? From what I understand, systemd uses socket activation as a means to chain events, while inetd is typically used to delay a service starting to save on resources such as RAM (for services seldom used). Is my primitive understanding about right? > Also, taking a step back, systemd undoubtedly changed user expectations > for the better in terms of integration, monitoring, and logging. Having > the same level of integration in the Shepherd would be a step in that > direction. At a heavy cost (complexity -- sheer amount of code). I remember finding out, for example, that the database-backed, compressed logging of systemd would consume more disk space than an uncompressed text log file. That's because each message has multiple keys associated with that needs to be written to disk. It's surprisingly inefficient. >>> (Basically, it=E2=80=99s a choice we could make right away: do we move = all >>> network daemons, plus things like guix-daemon, dbus-daemon, etc. etc. to >>> inetd services, or do we instead extend the Shepherd to support socket >>> activation? I=E2=80=99m rather in favor of the latter, but if in Guix = System we >>> build an abstraction that can equally well target inetd or a future >>> Shepherd version, that=E2=80=99s even better.) >> >> We could start with just targeting inetd, and build the abstraction >> later, if the need arises, perhaps? We may never need it. > > Yes, so what I had in mind is, in Guix System, something like > , which would kinda look like > but be lowered (for now) to an inetd service. This sounds good to me, if you are confident it can fix the problem at hand. Thank you, Maxim