From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id sF1yIJUu0GIkowAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 16:56:21 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id CAUyIJUu0GIATwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 16:56:21 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 130DA17171 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 16:56:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50390 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0GK-0001WQ-9I for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:56:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40318) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0G7-0001UC-C8 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:56:07 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40829) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0G2-0006I1-8Q for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:56:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0G2-0004Kh-48 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:56:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#54691: fortune-mod propagates various non-nice things Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 14:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 54691 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Csepp Cc: 54691@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Received: via spool by 54691-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B54691.165781051216593 (code B ref 54691); Thu, 14 Jul 2022 14:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 54691) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2022 14:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38588 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0FE-0004JY-5F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:55:12 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-f49.google.com ([209.85.219.49]:40711) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oC0FB-0004JE-Bk for 54691@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:55:10 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-f49.google.com with SMTP id g9so1601791qvq.7 for <54691@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:55:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ADijPb+JCaipfRtR6kdXvAasDnaaN6xO4oW9i+zH6zE=; b=NKhlKOnnr9asQSF5CvkmIhlHve+FB7Rw842I+ujzcqYQKkzwxZ1XASDkz/4SP2AT7V uuq5o47BPgpvAapKUe+/K8I/EyeX9bPcO5uLr82DgMMa31skYINHXBdYbJWf1xZHUPqK c3BNt8LiiXWxaHN/z4nnVYdfxOtzseNfY79doXXpVQlu1iayyHyyUVh5/icXnsq3eqxB novgBu0+0I0zrn1HzEf2yl2TpYEjRjZITjAA/xOH/Qm9RKtfrQnVZ54VUdbKtvJlwtf6 LTB6E3oid8EfS0cUWdTsLBnBug823GJCe1MobbkWlAsq24N/rFAL1DpQuo83KHiIJ/Bq IFlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ADijPb+JCaipfRtR6kdXvAasDnaaN6xO4oW9i+zH6zE=; b=HFZ49JRGWBTaf1lfyYkrTXXS6oVwjUcbkMiGSVFRelcaqwmz1r+3PF1G/nAKLZDDQd w49Gi50sQG9Pv3v3v+1wdZnVzjimOWGhARAWrwS2ar3tBczA1ug9eEK6JcBCPCBcFedo bOd8zJoSvJ4b/fUnSGozNFHcCL4+wmg476iEuFlJO+tUuXKxaRtx9wvzClzq5TRMX+Mb eBEoFHP+Z5pwhn1d488G2TzmqmwAp6vKNTDwMfe7LZIyp+HwUjOcNKdjIQazKMA79iXw jf3X6Msu2hQigoGoSPXUZmoZ0yDKpwqP4hU3aTWa+D+r2oIdsoSEaEoxEbQ0lcHskxdU w89Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8ueo12vQSyafKxd/OrZbxeBABINJ9WPfdzGewPTLqd9kfB3lJN ekBhINtG0YufWAhLh8B+ETi+129lDWCj+DSX X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tUqbdOYSUPXJiI4lgK4UkE+EuYLDXIrsqCM2w3DaeYaE8gr+WHMkwJMsDIPrw3Rn42pKdLtw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:501c:b0:473:2f9:c2dd with SMTP id jo28-20020a056214501c00b0047302f9c2ddmr8022258qvb.50.1657810502566; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-133-49.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.133.49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h16-20020a37de10000000b006a693e46d5csm1475136qkj.11.2022.07.14.07.55.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <3fc3794df2d837c16ce768594c3ea9086b5f0abf.camel@telenet.be> <87leswxyy4.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1wvalbn.fsf@riseup.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:55:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87y1wvalbn.fsf@riseup.net> (Csepp's message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:00:26 +0200") Message-ID: <87h73jwxq3.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1657810581; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ADijPb+JCaipfRtR6kdXvAasDnaaN6xO4oW9i+zH6zE=; b=fhms/M6jeYMpoXuNs9kVUuSAHfcZpc/6WXdnUNPMox1p3raT6KlaKXiz4pSwiNQ7PCd8eW +uHSyCa1i8Y2MlhC1X0ttJr4epgjl5kXMHuAdEu3REvsKqmgrwkyaFP3QK1uUF8NkwqS5/ uh4zdAIuPJh/F6whemcGrcvgw9J//DbafqOsXPFMtEHlG/iekM9o9lJqgfttg5QKFGlK/e f/PCW+R6SuHER0ES6hM2zVlwYtgOzPbbIJx9AE6Q4MuE4I1HWIr58F9HHb8xRAyPKPC45J PFv0YT0RGADsM3SoAJBqA6UOYVPuJQ7I/u6qDtqrxUbXOgqIfZCNWjjR9BTaFw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1657810581; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=V5P0iHyujP2lmGThk5AKJxZp4BwV0W3e4437y8f70zYJGsVafpwlPl7dSM7r0uNfF3DHhV yMhfoNjYEsm9yxON0WPGbDewyR1D/SYVZRZwEo23s5fuj2diU4JBZteMWZQW09wP4lQyjd S9vfAgLyUTX6DnHByWBqnHSaEE5GlUzuoiYzAVYr3pezPv3OPC3CZH763XXn9BlYXOrYSw aaggPU1mrgfnDh7R0z7P5v70YBrUrnJz0gm1HAW6XA/+UUfvDskh3iMs8MmqFjDm37MFhU n1spcgE5qNBufONRdoJWXovjuFRCl0hZs6T52DvfZLhtMfbxflxSzwR+cUeXzQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=NKhlKOnn; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.05 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=NKhlKOnn; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 130DA17171 X-Spam-Score: 6.05 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: iS2a5thV2XM3 Hi Csepp, Csepp writes: > Maxim Cournoyer writes: > >> Hi Maxime, >> >> Maxime Devos writes: >> >>> Hi guix, >>> >>> fortune-mod currently propagates (in the non-technical sense) various >>> non-nice things like objectification, misogeny, religious intolerance, >>> anti-mathematician-ism (?) and date rape. That is not an exhaustive >>> list, these are just the first few things I encountered with "fortune >>> off". >>> >>> To reproduce the issue, run "fortune off" a few times. Or just >>> "fortune", though then it can take a bit longer. >>> >>> There are also a few non-nice things in the non-off set. E.g.: >>> >>> $ fortune >>>> User n.: >>>> A programmer who will believe anything you tell him. >>> # ^ from 'definitions' >>> >>> As such, just removing 'off' doesn't seem sufficient. Unless Someone= =E2=84=A2 >>> volunteers to remove the anti-fortunes (*), I would just remove >>> 'fortune-mod', given that it seems to serve no practical purpose byond >>> being non-nice. WDYT? >> >> 'off' here apparently means the 'offensive' database, as explained by >> Liliana; seems it offends alright :-). >> >> The GNU FSDG has says nothing about what programs may or may not >> contain, for a good reason: the line to draw could get very subjective >> (similar to how the GPL ). >> >> I don't think we should judge our software on terms falling outside of >> the Free Software Distribution Guidelines, but a simple thing we could >> add here would be a note in the description to caution the user that >> running >> >> @example >> fortune off >> @end example >> >> is intended to be offensive. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Maxim > > Honestly this is dumb, it's not even practically useful software. We > have no obligation to package something that jokes about date rape and > contributes nothing of practical value. > This is very different to the reasoning behind the lack of moral clauses > in the GPL. And again, just because something is free software, we don't = have to > package it. > It's a ticking PR timebomb and nothing of value would be lost if we got > rid of that file. If some snowflake gets triggered because we removed > their favorite date rape joke, they self identified as someone whose > opinion we should ignore. :P Thanks for the criticism. I admit I hadn't run 'fortune off' myself or researched much on what it contains; after reading more about it, especially considering these notes about the 'Offensive' database [0]: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- [...] In another file in this directory (Notes), the original author(s) of the fortune distribution state that "racist, mysogynist [sic] (sexist), or homophobic ideas" should never be included in the fortune database. [...] --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- [...] I admit that I was strongly tempted to simply remove these fortunes, an action that I might have justified by pointing to the Notes of the original authors. However, it appears that over the course of time there have been those who find these sorts of prejudice amusing, and in America, at least, even Nazi rhetoric is a protected form of speech. So I include them, and leave the decision to individual system administrators. [...] --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- But the most explicit recommendation is: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Those who respect women, gays, and people of color may prefer to either remove the .dat file (which keeps the strings, but makes them inaccessible via the fortune program), or to delete these files altogether. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I now think we should act on it :-) Would you like to prepare a patch stripping out the offensive database file? Thanks, Maxim [0] https://github.com/shlomif/fortune-mod/blob/master/fortune-mod/Offensi= ve