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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com>
To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr>
Cc: 56799@debbugs.gnu.org, attila@lendvai.name
Subject: bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 15:09:36 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87bkta8j9r.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87wnbypepu@nckx> (Tobias Geerinckx-Rice's message of "Wed, 27 Jul 2022 20:45:19 +0200")

Hi,

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:

> Hi Maxim,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer 写道:
>> For some background reading, see [0].
>
> Thanks for the well-thought-out reply, and sharing this interesting
> link!
>
> Now, it's just the musings of one person, but now I think I do agree
> with (what I think is) the underlying vision: to hush up *unspecified*
> and sneakily replace it with true nothingness.  OK, I can live with
> that.  :-)
>
>> I think the semantic of the language is that it is to be used as the
>> lack of a return value from a procedure or syntax, e.g.:
>>
>> (unspecified? (if #f 'one-arm-if)) -> #t
>
> Well… in the above context I'd hesitate to even imply
> ‘semantics’. It's like undefined behaviour in C.  Ascribe it meaning
> at your peril.  Otherwise, point taken.
>
>> Having 'unspecified?' even defined in Guile seems to go against that
>> idea; perhaps because Wingo themselves seems to disagree in [0].
>
> Agreed.  *This* was one of my reasons for supporting (field
> *unspecified*), so it's nice to have it validated, even if it is
> rejected.

Good to know I wasn't the only one nudged into thinking the
'unspecified?' procedure somehow justified using *unspecified* directly.

>> I'm also thinking 'unspecified being too close to *unspecified* is
>> probably going to cause confusion down the line.  Reverting to the
>> originally used 'disabled may be the lesser evil.

> Ah, here I can concentrate all my previous disagreement: hell no :-)
>
> It is the worstest evil; literally anything is better than
> (enable-foo? 'disabled) defaulting to #t.
>
> Bikeshed this all y'all want, but 'default or 'unset or 'whatever are
> miles better.

Thanks for sharing your idea!  The neat thing here, is that even if we
disagree about 'unspecified in the patch I'm about to send, we can
discuss it to length then fix the end result in a second using sed ;-).

Thanks for your input!

Maxim




  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-27 19:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-07-27 16:23 bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 16:43 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2022-07-27 18:27   ` Attila Lendvai
2022-07-28 15:15     ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 18:31   ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 18:45     ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2022-07-27 19:09       ` Maxim Cournoyer [this message]
2022-07-27 19:45         ` bug#56799: [PATCH] services: configuration: Step back from *unspecified* Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 19:46         ` bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 20:20           ` bug#56799: [PATCH v2] gexp: Handle *unspecified* as a gexp input Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-27 21:43             ` Maxime Devos
2022-07-28 14:58               ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-28  4:41           ` bug#56799: [PATCH v3] " Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-01  5:08             ` bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-01 10:00               ` Maxime Devos
2022-08-01 12:46                 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-01 13:44             ` Ludovic Courtès
2022-08-01 16:55       ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-07-28  4:55     ` bokr
2022-07-28 10:26       ` Maxime Devos
2022-07-28 15:09         ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-01 13:49 ` Ludovic Courtès
2022-08-01 15:55   ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-02  7:31     ` Ludovic Courtès
2022-08-02  8:45       ` bokr
2022-08-02 15:06       ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-04 12:19         ` Ludovic Courtès
2022-08-07 22:44           ` Ludovic Courtès
2022-08-08 22:27           ` Attila Lendvai
2022-08-08 23:35             ` Attila Lendvai
2022-08-10  2:17               ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-10  3:26             ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-11 10:15               ` Attila Lendvai
2022-08-13  6:31                 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-13 16:47                   ` Attila Lendvai
2022-08-14  2:57                     ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-16 14:00                       ` Attila Lendvai
2022-08-17 13:16                         ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-17 16:00                           ` paren--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2022-08-10  0:43           ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-24 12:40 ` bug#56799: [PATCH 1/5] services: configuration: Add a 'maybe-value-set?' procedure Attila Lendvai
2022-08-24 12:40   ` bug#56799: [PATCH 2/5] services: configuration: Add %unset-value exported variable Attila Lendvai
2022-08-24 12:40   ` bug#56799: [PATCH 3/5] services: configuration: Add maybe-value exported procedure Attila Lendvai
2022-08-24 12:40   ` bug#56799: [PATCH 4/5] services: Use the new maybe/unset API Attila Lendvai
2022-08-25  4:18     ` bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-24 12:40   ` bug#56799: [PATCH 5/5] services: configuration: Change the value of the unset marker Attila Lendvai
2022-08-25  4:14     ` bug#56799: (gnu services configuration) usage of *unspecified* is problematic Maxim Cournoyer

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