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Received: from 91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net ([91.160.117.201]:56242 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nwkdk-0006eR-LH; Thu, 02 Jun 2022 09:13:28 -0400 From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= References: <878rql9wh9.fsf@gnu.org> <20220531164407.13914-1-maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87o7zcwvy6.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <878rqgr0l4.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Quartidi 14 Prairial an 230 de la =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution, ?= jour de l'Acacia X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2022 15:13:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878rqgr0l4.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Wed, 01 Jun 2022 09:10:31 -0400") Message-ID: <8735gnqkcp.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AD77F2B855 X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Y6muABWbjvy+ Hi Maxim, Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >> Before going further, I=E2=80=99d like to understand: this does more tha= n just >> fix the Jami system tests, right? >> >> It would have been nice to have surgical changes to =E2=80=9Cjust=E2=80= =9D fix the >> tests, along the lines of , >> possibly followed by a rework of the whole machinery, if that=E2=80=99s >> possible. > > It's not really possible unfortunately, because the rework from talking > to the D-Bus API via the 'dbus-send' binary to using Guile AC/D-bus was > needed or at least simplified fixing the issues. So am I right that the =E2=80=9Cissues=E2=80=9D were not specifically relat= ed to the Shepherd 0.9.0 switch, or at least not just to that? (Just to make sure I understand the context.) >> Besides, I think we should talk to Jami upstream (which shouldn=E2=80=99= t be too >> hard :-)). It doesn=E2=80=99t seem reasonable to me to have 800+ lines = of code >> in the distro to start one service. Usually the =E2=80=98start=E2=80=99= and =E2=80=98stop=E2=80=99 >> methods are between 2 and 10 lines of code. >> >> What do you think is missing upstream so that starting Jami is >> simpler? > > 1) Lack of D-Bus support in Shepherd to easily start D-Bus services. > The upstream systemd service definition for the Jami daemon (jamid) is > this: > > # net.jami.daemon.service > [D-BUS Service] > Name=3Dcx.ring.Ring > Exec=3D@LIBDIR@/jamid > > But that's nearly not where the complexity of our jami-service-type > lies. But that should be fine: we have dozens of D-Bus services that happily get started by dbus-daemon. > Rather, it's in the following: > > 2) The lack of a way to declaratively configure Jami and the need to use > D-Bus API to issue commands to Jami non-interactively. For example, to > have Jami import an account it's necessary to go via either > > a) the GUI or > b) the D-Bus API > > The Jami service in Guix makes use of b), which introduces the need for > some Scheme bindings wrapping the low-level D-Bus interface. Perhaps > such bindings could live in Jami itself. > > The second point (2) could be addressed upstream, but since it's a > rather niche use case (the common use case is simply running the client > GUI), is already achievable via D-Bus, and would probably require a > considerable amount of work in Jami itself, I think we can keep it as is > for now, as a Guix System exclusive feature ;-). Note that even if Jami > could be configured via configuration files, we'd still want to be able > to communicate with it via D-Bus to maintain the possible actions > currently available in our Shepherd service (listing/enabling/disable > accounts, etc.), so it'd only really help to reduce the start slot, and > that's it. We'd still need most of the D-Bus bindings, so it wouldn't > help that much anyway. Ah I see. > I hope that clarifies how our jami-service-type is both complex but also > unique. Sure, the ability to configure Jami in a declarative and stateless fashion is a plus, that=E2=80=99s really cool. Longer-term I think this should go in Jami proper though. It=E2=80=99s gre= at that Guix has an edge over the competition :-), but having to maintain it is less nice. Also, in more concrete terms: one goal of the least-authority work at is to remove =E2=80=98make-forkexec-constructor/container=E2=80=99 and the whole (gnu bu= ild shepherd) module. Jami is one of its last remaining users (adjusting it felt like beyond my abilities, precisely because it=E2=80=99s much more complex than = the other services I adjusted). Could you take a look at that eventually, once this patch has been reviewed? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.