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Mon, 29 Aug 2022 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87a6ajg2zv.fsf@gmail.com> <5521716772922285f7c6bc381c82613026eebbd9.camel@telenet.be> <87bkuvdoe4.fsf@gmail.com> <87r13ex7nw.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87mtdl2a7u.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87ilo9294m.fsf@gmail.com> <87a693pjm7.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87r12fqf6j.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1v75fo0.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 17:06:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87y1v75fo0.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:43:11 +0200") Message-ID: <8735debvz7.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Gkr78BLq; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.40 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Gkr78BLq; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 567401A44 X-Spam-Score: 6.40 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: dbqgIuwKigSm Hi Ludovic, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi, > > Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > >> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > > [...] > >>> Yes. The issue is that we=E2=80=99re more free-style than systemd: we= =E2=80=99re >>> basically loading code live in the running Shepherd. So we have to >>> write that code such that it works with older Shepherd versions. >>> >>> This is why we have things like conditions on >>> >>> (defined? 'make-inetd-constructor) >>> >>> and the likes, with a fallback. >> >> I saw that used somewhere, but I still think a minimally required >> Shepherd version field could be of use on services, for the following >> reasons: >> >> 1. Otherwise each services are left implementing ad-hoc solutions. >> >> 2. It's more complicated to be compatible with two Shepherd version than >> simply mentioning the minimum version required, and prevent the service >> from running until it is satisfied (especially on a system like Guix >> System where we *know* what is the current version of Shepherd >> available). > > I think it=E2=80=99s a situation similar to =E2=80=9Cfeature tests vs. id= entity tests=E2=80=9D > in build system configuration (checking whether the libc function you > want to use is available rather than checking whether =E2=80=98uname=E2= =80=99 returns > =E2=80=9CLinux=E2=80=9D), and for the same reason I tend to prefer featur= e tests as > shown above. Agreed, but the context differs wildly: while Autoconf or browsers for example really are facing a diversity of configuration, the version of Shepherd used in Guix System is known and controlled. So the only problems bound to happen are in this context: 1. New Shepherd version introduced in Guix (package upgrade). 2. New Shepherd features used by services. 3. Machine reconfigured using a commit including 1 and 2. The problems are temporary: upon a reboot the running Shepherd version will be the latest, and have all the features needed. Hence my suggestion to use something simple to improve the user experience of a user faced with 3. > I won=E2=80=99t pretend it=E2=80=99s pretty :-), but I don=E2=80=99t see = an improvement feasible > in the short term. > > In the long term, maybe we=E2=80=99d want the service API in the Shepherd= to be > more declarative, more like packages in Guix. But that=E2=80=99s more fo= r a 2.0 > horizon IMO. > > Perhaps we should close this issue unless it becomes actionable? It's a relatively narrow use case and it's relatively rare too, but I'd err on keeping it open until it gets fixed, whether in a definitive fashion or as a more limited one to help users facing 3. above. Thanks, and welcome back! Maxim