From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id pRCGNBcqpWDFXAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 17:09:11 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id IAqSLxcqpWDNcgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 15:09:11 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 188252EAAA for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 17:09:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58082 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNoq-0008I5-Oj for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:09:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39990) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNok-0008FW-2q for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:09:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:48883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNoj-0007TK-R8 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:09:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNoj-0006Hn-LX for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:09:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#48331: Emacs' describe-package doesn't work for packages managed by guix Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 15:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 48331 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Andrew Tropin Received: via spool by 48331-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B48331.162143691824132 (code B ref 48331); Wed, 19 May 2021 15:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 48331) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2021 15:08:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNoM-0006H9-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:08:38 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:20464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ljNoI-0006Gt-UC for 48331@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 11:08:36 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (91-114-247-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at [91.114.247.246]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Flbq26gGHz1LB20; Wed, 19 May 2021 17:08:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4Flbq26gGHz1LB20 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1621436911; bh=5hcWY9nOVvLr4x2e8l1gqctwSK4t7JzUuIL7RzrsGR8=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=KItqwd7I4GmhY1mQM8Jk5UuCnoDsYYA44iBYKbXQiTv9T4fJR+RYaAOKeS3XIgMGg TaqbkNxERutl860U+yJVnGE2h4kxlbiC5EB6ObdfEgVUU5DtFunmhCFOjgcFV0SyUV LmyueYo8cEr2TzjtTw0qU7XZU3Qc2vwRUZ7hZFL4= Message-ID: <437d90a3cc91400fdf0828fea2c989c277a73a7c.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 17:08:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <87im3r81so.fsf@trop.in> <78cfb495305fb1137da26e37a7ae5dd9467043bf.camel@student.tugraz.at> <8164abe40ec6e865bf8385e010702cfe158dabcc.camel@student.tugraz.at> <6cba9730ace19ecebc397023b243cdb02486cc0c.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.117 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: 48331@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxim Cournoyer Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621436951; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; 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dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=KItqwd7I; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bug-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 188252EAAA X-Spam-Score: -1.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 79ZVJeTN/EKz Am Mittwoch, den 19.05.2021, 17:32 +0300 schrieb Andrew Tropin: > > > Most other package managers seem to respect "infrastructure" > > > provided by package.el. > > I don't think that statement is well-supported by the data we have. > > Agree, that was an incorrect statement. I should have said something > like: there are some popular tools like use-package configuration > helper, Nix package manager, Spacemacs configuration framework, some > elisp archives and probably something else, which utilize and follow > package.el. Not all of them use package.el itself, but they follow > conventions and describe-package help command and some other work > correctly. Is package.el really so well supported by all these tools? I might concede, that some of them don't throw away the package.el blurb like guix does, but other than that, I think you'd have a hard time stuffing a random git repo from use-package into package.el. Am I missing something? > > Why should we let ELPA dictate our layout? I have not even once > > tried customizing package.el for actual use since I got Guix, > > because the elpa importer is trivial. > > We don't have to. Actually, I'm very happy with the new (current) > layout we have right now. That's good :) > I would say I find the following use case very confusing for > newcomers: > - Install emacs package via Guix. > - Use built-in help C-h C-h, find C-h P. > - Get it to work for built-in packages, but not for packages > installed by Guix. > - Get frustrated. You mean Emacs newcomers? Tell me something new about the first-time Emacs experience :P > I think we could avoid this at least in two ways: > 1. Use elpa/ subdirectory. > 2. Keep current structure, set package-directory-list to .../site- > lisp instead of .../site-lisp/elpa by default. Neither sounds very pleasant, but does (2) even work? > > Thus we're not trying to keep in line with any specific package > > manager, we just need to make things work "with Emacs" in the sense > > that packages installed via Guix should have working autoloads and > > one should be able to (require ...) them. > > Yes, but at the same time I don't see reasons why not to implement > one of two options above. We can get both: working autoloads and > working built-in help function (+newcommers won't be so frustrated). Of course. The glue code for that would go into guix-emacs.el, just like our autoload glue. > Personally, I'm quite happy that packages got their own > subdirectories and I'm fully satisfied with current state of it, but > it would be cool if inexperienced users will be able to use at least > built-in help commands for packages out of the box without additional > configuration. > > Hope my original point is a little better worded now. Doing something in Emacs without configuration sounds like an oxymoron, but I get your point. At the same time, I think that this kind of change is a pretty large request (DPD has more than 100 lines not counting dependencies, it's not small and neat like guix-emacs.el). If you find a clever trick to make your troubles go away, do submit a patch, but don't let it rely on user setup (in particular, don't rely on "haha, the user always carries about the elpa subdirectory"). Regards, Leo