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* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
@ 2021-04-07  5:13 bo0od
  2021-04-15  9:09 ` Ludovic Courtès
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-07  5:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 47631

Hi There,

According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to 
have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection 
available at the installation process.

This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM which 
doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it (falling 
into same category of static-ip).

solving/giving:

- Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well documented 
and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled by new 
users)check #47630

- Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands it 
will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing 
(compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and 
so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity like 
nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc

- Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it

...etc

And any user who doesnt want GUI he can switch to tty for commands or 
textual installation. (The image of the guix will be bigger for surely, 
But as they say the bigger the better)

ThX!




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-07  5:13 bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache bo0od
@ 2021-04-15  9:09 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2021-04-15 10:00   ` bo0od
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2021-04-15  9:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bo0od; +Cc: 47631

Hi,

bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:

> According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to
> have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection 
> available at the installation process.

More specifically, we cannot guarantee that an off-line installation
would work because it depends on the software and services you’ll
choose.

> This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM
> which doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it
> (falling into same category of static-ip).
>
> solving/giving:
>
> - Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well
>   documented and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled
>  by new users)check #47630

Right, this one’s already filed.

> - Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands
>   it will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing 
> (compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and
> so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity
> like nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc

Did you try the graphical installation?

  https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/

It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
the issues you describe.

> - Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it

Did you try the live VM image?

  https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable.  Please file issues
focused on specific problems.

Thanks,
Ludo’.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-15  9:09 ` Ludovic Courtès
@ 2021-04-15 10:00   ` bo0od
  2021-04-15 14:30     ` Ludovic Courtès
  2021-04-15 22:31     ` Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-15 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: 47631

 > Did you try the graphical installation?
 >
 >    https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
 >
 > It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
 > the issues you describe.

Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and 
others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI of 
their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access to 
the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily 
specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you 
can even test the distro without the need to install it)

Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.

 > Did you try the live VM image?
 >
 >    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

What? where?

 > I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable.  Please file issues
 > focused on specific problems.

Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check 
other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc


If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian is 
doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to 
configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.

Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places where 
internet need to be configured manually (adding IP,Gateway,Netmask... 
manually).

Ludovic Courtès:
> Hi,
> 
> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:
> 
>> According to my communications on IRC i see that guix doesnt want to
>> have an offline installation, Which mean it need internet connection
>> available at the installation process.
> 
> More specifically, we cannot guarantee that an off-line installation
> would work because it depends on the software and services you’ll
> choose.
> 
>> This is fine except when user having either static-ip or using VM
>> which doesnt give readable network interface to the distro inside it
>> (falling into same category of static-ip).
>>
>> solving/giving:
>>
>> - Adding static IP and so as manually installing is not well
>>    documented and need knowledge and skills (very faraway to be handled
>>   by new users)check #47630
> 
> Right, this one’s already filed.
> 
>> - Easiness of modifying things e.g instead of using tens of commands
>>    it will be replaced with couple of clicks and for surely less typing
>> (compare gparted vs parted steps or network-manager vs ip commands and
>> so on). You can checkout many distros whos giving this opportunity
>> like nixos, trisquel/triskel, mint...etc
> 
> Did you try the graphical installation?
> 
>    https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
> 
> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
> the issues you describe.
> 
>> - Give trial usage of the distro for the user before installing it
> 
> Did you try the live VM image?
> 
>    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
> 
> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable.  Please file issues
> focused on specific problems.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
> 




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-15 10:00   ` bo0od
@ 2021-04-15 14:30     ` Ludovic Courtès
  2021-04-16  2:19       ` bo0od
  2021-04-15 22:31     ` Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2021-04-15 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bo0od; +Cc: 47631

Hi,

bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:

>> Did you try the graphical installation?
>>
>>    https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
>>
>> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
>> the issues you describe.
>
> Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and
> others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI
> of their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access
> to the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily 
> specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you
> can even test the distro without the need to install it)

Letting users use GUI (or non-GUI) tools by themselves doesn’t look
appealing to me.  We made the choice to provide a guided installer,
similar to that of Debian and other distros, such that users don’t have
to figure out by themselves that they need to run gparted, follow steps,
etc.

> Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.
>
>> Did you try the live VM image?
>>
>>    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
>
> What? where?

Search for “QEMU”.

>> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable.  Please file issues
>> focused on specific problems.
>
> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc

I contributed to NixOS long ago, and unless things have changed, it
doesn’t have a guided installer.

> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
> is doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to 
> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.

So I guess your primary request is about giving access to the GUIs.
That comes at a cost (the ISO is already quite big) but that’s something
we could consider.

For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.

Thanks,
Ludo’.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-15 10:00   ` bo0od
  2021-04-15 14:30     ` Ludovic Courtès
@ 2021-04-15 22:31     ` Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix
  2021-04-16  3:13       ` bo0od
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix @ 2021-04-15 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bo0od, Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: 47631

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 986 bytes --]

On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 10:00 +0000, bo0od wrote:
> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check 
> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
> 
> 
> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
> is 
> doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to 
> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
> 
> Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places
> where 
> internet need to be configured manually (adding
> IP,Gateway,Netmask... 
> manually).

GNU Guix right now is not for novice users, things progress at their
own pace, based on available contributor time. Everyone realizes the
steep learning curve of GNU Guix. There is many issues to solve before
trying to make GNU Guix more accessible IMO. Be patient and things are
only going to improve. The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-15 14:30     ` Ludovic Courtès
@ 2021-04-16  2:19       ` bo0od
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-16  2:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: 47631

 > For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.

Ok as you wish why not, But please dont give something less than what 
Debian installer providing.

Ludovic Courtès:
> Hi,
> 
> bo0od <bo0od@riseup.net> skribis:
> 
>>> Did you try the graphical installation?
>>>
>>>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/system-graphical-installer/
>>>
>>> It’s key strokes rather than clicks, but I think it addresses most of
>>> the issues you describe.
>>
>> Yes i do know this, But whats different between what guix is doing and
>> others are doing (examples i gave above), They give you access to GUI
>> of their distro without internet and from within this live GUI access
>> to the distro you can configure the internet/partition..etc (easily
>> specially for first time users) using GUI tools without internet (you
>> can even test the distro without the need to install it)
> 
> Letting users use GUI (or non-GUI) tools by themselves doesn’t look
> appealing to me.  We made the choice to provide a guided installer,
> similar to that of Debian and other distros, such that users don’t have
> to figure out by themselves that they need to run gparted, follow steps,
> etc.
> 
>> Thats what im requesting not what is currently happening.
>>
>>> Did you try the live VM image?
>>>
>>>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/
>>
>> What? where?
> 
> Search for “QEMU”.
> 
>>> I’m closing because I don’t see anything actionable.  Please file issues
>>> focused on specific problems.
>>
>> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
>> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
> 
> I contributed to NixOS long ago, and unless things have changed, it
> doesn’t have a guided installer.
> 
>> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
>> is doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
>> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
> 
> So I guess your primary request is about giving access to the GUIs.
> That comes at a cost (the ISO is already quite big) but that’s something
> we could consider.
> 
> For now, our focus is on improving the guided installer itself.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
> 




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache
  2021-04-15 22:31     ` Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix
@ 2021-04-16  3:13       ` bo0od
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: bo0od @ 2021-04-16  3:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Léo Le Bouter, Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: 47631

 > GNU Guix right now is not for novice users

Yeah i can see that clearly.

 > The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
 > dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!

Sure i will try, Thanks alot <f>

Léo Le Bouter:
> On Thu, 2021-04-15 at 10:00 +0000, bo0od wrote:
>> Guix need to improve itself when first time initiated, Please check
>> other projects like NixOS,Triskel,Mint,Ubuntu...etc
>>
>>
>> If you dont like that live graphical gui access, then do it as debian
>> is
>> doing it which give you proper gui screen specifically intended to
>> configure your internet then you can proceed with the installation.
>>
>> Otherwise guix is useless case specially for new users in places
>> where
>> internet need to be configured manually (adding
>> IP,Gateway,Netmask...
>> manually).
> 
> GNU Guix right now is not for novice users, things progress at their
> own pace, based on available contributor time. Everyone realizes the
> steep learning curve of GNU Guix. There is many issues to solve before
> trying to make GNU Guix more accessible IMO. Be patient and things are
> only going to improve. The best way to accelerate this as you ask is to
> dive in and contribute, if you can, please do!
> 




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-04-16 16:27 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-04-07  5:13 bug#47631: Add graphical installation and solve tons of headache bo0od
2021-04-15  9:09 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-04-15 10:00   ` bo0od
2021-04-15 14:30     ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-04-16  2:19       ` bo0od
2021-04-15 22:31     ` Léo Le Bouter via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2021-04-16  3:13       ` bo0od

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