GNU/MIT Scheme?

GNU/MIT Scheme?

[MJ Ray]

If MIT Scheme is now GNU/MIT Scheme, does that mean Guile is no longer
the preferred GNU scripting language?  Did Guile's maintainers know this
was coming?

-- 
MJR/slef   My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know.
       Thought: "Changeset algebra is really difficult."



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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Marius Vollmer]

MJ Ray <markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> If MIT Scheme is now GNU/MIT Scheme, does that mean Guile is no longer
> the preferred GNU scripting language?  Did Guile's maintainers know this
> was coming?

No, I don't know anything about this.  Can you point me to more
information?

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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[MJ Ray]

On 2003-05-29 13:15:50 +0100 Marius Vollmer <mvo@zagadka.de> wrote:
> No, I don't know anything about this.  Can you point me to more
> information?

http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ and 
http://zurich.ai.mit.edu/pipermail/info-cscheme/2003-April/000530.html 
are probably the best place to start, unless someone knows better?

-- 
MJR/slef   My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know.
      http://mjr.towers.org.uk/   jabber://slef@jabber.at
Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
       Thought: "Changeset algebra is really difficult."


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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Greg Troxel]

MIT Scheme (now GNU/MIT it seems) is quite a different beast from
guile.  It has a compiler -- written in Scheme -- and only supports a
limited number of architecture/OS combinations.  It seems quite large,
and at first glance it doesn't seem like a good idea to use it for an
extension language to a C program.  So I see it as complementary to
guile, not competitive.  (I think I used an earlier version of MIT
Scheme running on "chipmunks" in the spring of 1984 when I took 6.001
(the subject of SICP fame).)

        Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com>


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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Marius Vollmer]

Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com> writes:

> MIT Scheme (now GNU/MIT it seems) is quite a different beast from
> guile.  It has a compiler -- written in Scheme -- and only supports a
> limited number of architecture/OS combinations.  It seems quite large,
> and at first glance it doesn't seem like a good idea to use it for an
> extension language to a C program.  So I see it as complementary to
> guile, not competitive.

Yep, that's what I think as well.

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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[MJ Ray]

On 2003-05-29 14:52:37 +0100 Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com> wrote:

> MIT Scheme (now GNU/MIT it seems) is quite a different beast from
> guile.  [...] it doesn't seem like a good idea to use it for an
> extension language to a C program.  So I see it as complementary to
> guile, not competitive. [...]

I see it as a competitor, for what I use guile for: deploying software 
written in Scheme to GNU platforms (must publish more of them). Do you 
think I should be using GNU/MIT instead?

Then again, given that most of what I want to do seems to involve 
interfacing with C things, should I stick with Guile?  Our OS is 
written mostly in C, so aren't all things just extensions to C?
This move has confused me. I thought Guile was GNU's Scheme and GNU's 
scripting language of choice. I was wondering if Guile knew where they 
fit in now that GNU has another Scheme implementation. So far, it 
seems not, unless they are to be just embedded extensions.

-- 
MJR/slef   My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know.
       Thought: "Changeset algebra is really difficult."


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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Mikael Djurfeldt]

MJ Ray <markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> On 2003-05-29 14:52:37 +0100 Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com> wrote:
>
>> MIT Scheme (now GNU/MIT it seems) is quite a different beast from
>> guile.  [...] it doesn't seem like a good idea to use it for an
>> extension language to a C program.  So I see it as complementary to
>> guile, not competitive. [...]
>
> I see it as a competitor, for what I use guile for: deploying software
> written in Scheme to GNU platforms (must publish more of them). Do you
> think I should be using GNU/MIT instead?

This, of course, depends on the total sum of your needs.  If you want
to publish "pure" R5RS Scheme software and the architectures which
GNU/MIT Scheme supports are enough for you, GNU/MIT Scheme might very
well be a good choice.

(But you might find some Guile facilities such as the module system or
the OOP system to be useful.  I'm not sure GNU/MIT Scheme has such
support yet.)

> Then again, given that most of what I want to do seems to involve
> interfacing with C things, should I stick with Guile?  Our OS is
> written mostly in C, so aren't all things just extensions to C?
> This move has confused me. I thought Guile was GNU's Scheme and GNU's
> scripting language of choice. I was wondering if Guile knew where they
> fit in now that GNU has another Scheme implementation. So far, it
> seems not, unless they are to be just embedded extensions.

As Greg said, GNU/MIT Scheme and Guile has different goals and
different roles.  GNU/MIT Scheme is an implementation of Scheme, while
Guile is an extension and scripting language.

M


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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[MJ Ray]

Mikael Djurfeldt <djurfeldt@nada.kth.se> wrote:
> This, of course, depends on the total sum of your needs.  If you want
> to publish "pure" R5RS Scheme software and the architectures which
> GNU/MIT Scheme supports are enough for you, GNU/MIT Scheme might very
> well be a good choice.

I'm not sure that GNU/MIT Scheme has enough interfaces to other parts
of GNU, or other libraries to be quite as useful, but it's hard to tell.

> (But you might find some Guile facilities such as the module system [...]

No, I find the Guile module system and most other general things only
accessible through non-portable interfaces an obstruction.  The same is
true of most other scheme implementations, though.

[...]
> As Greg said, GNU/MIT Scheme and Guile has different goals and
> different roles.  GNU/MIT Scheme is an implementation of Scheme, while
> Guile is an extension and scripting language.

...but Guile is an implementation of Scheme, and GNU/MIT Scheme is a
scripting language (whatever that means today).  The only difference
seems to be the FFI and libguile.  Is MIT Scheme coming to GNU the
first step towards a merge?

-- 
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      http://mjr.towers.org.uk/   jabber://slef@jabber.at



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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Per Bothner]

MJ Ray wrote:

> Is MIT Scheme coming to GNU the first step towards a merge?

First, note that specifying that a Scheme is a "GNU program"
or "part of the GNU project" does not necessarily imply that
it is the *preferred* Scheme implementation.  Note that Kawa
is also a "GNU Scheme".

However, the name "MIT/GNU Scheme" does look awfully
close to "GNU Scheme" which suggest "the preferred
GNU implementation of Scheme".  That may not be
intentional, however.

So I suggest somebody ask RMS for a clarification.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/




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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Marius Vollmer]

Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> writes:

> So I suggest somebody ask RMS for a clarification.

Yes, I'll do that.

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Re: GNU/MIT Scheme?

[Marius Vollmer]

MJ Ray <markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> If MIT Scheme is now GNU/MIT Scheme, does that mean Guile is no longer
> the preferred GNU scripting language?

Here is what rms said:

| Since MIT Scheme has been contributed to the GNU Project, GNU now
| has two Scheme interpreters.  They are meant for two different kinds
| of usage: MIT Scheme is very large and complete, while Guile is
| meant to be used as an extensibility engine in a variety of
| applications.  Both programs are useful, and neither one is a
| replacement for the other.

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