From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: paul Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.guile.user Subject: Re: Ideas for making Guile easier to approach Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 13:02:18 +1100 Message-ID: References: <87a6f1mtz3.fsf@nonconstructivism.com> <20220208194657.ed7afe59b80eeb9c7ce880f3@gmail.com> <87o83fdeqz.fsf@dustycloud.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9777"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 27.2 To: guile-user@gnu.org Original-X-From: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 10 03:06:58 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyrJ-0002K4-RS for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:06:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50842 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyrI-00053c-Sw for guile-user@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2022 21:06:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34004) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyr8-00053R-Uw for guile-user@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2022 21:06:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailtransmit04.runbox.com ([185.226.149.37]:56180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyr6-0002Tg-Im for guile-user@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2022 21:06:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailtransmit03.runbox ([10.9.9.163] helo=aibo.runbox.com) by mailtransmit04.runbox.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyqy-00FtAi-Bs for guile-user@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:06:36 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=denknerd.org; s=selector2; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-reply-to:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:References; bh=WieUg9y3whUsq5/dUmOFVsFLWXHZpxOPSrG2SGlHleQ=; b=sb88A+F+uVpq0LdfS5S3k4xIbo PG4IMhXauYh73Q2VhNPYhWWtkqPuZ6Nk5uwrUyI8qyh/R2mdXZhFHu/vvDEloRML2GuJbw8kVgzAi VYIAgfyHVrV83vX5R84tDFNiUFSBIaWdyc21XZIpD5lhnO2ZD7QwbsbqZOCG96CawLIdKpCnkJOFv MfuB1pATxBt62G1WarBUYpcGawBxtx4vC8fKdQjU98xTg7xjQezUcV7CsygeT3NX0tTDgVnqUxK0s oHivnJCZQCNlHyEoHlj+tI4JGo5HArnmyxVjd6oQk7+ofoSgNa03SQLIJ9vgEtjpPz/9SpGzNeLxz xwhorwYg==; Original-Received: from [10.9.9.73] (helo=submission02.runbox) by mailtransmit03.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nHyqx-0006G4-Po; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:06:35 +0100 Original-Received: by submission02.runbox with esmtpsa [Authenticated ID (705705)] (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) id 1nHyqq-00080X-I2; Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:06:29 +0100 In-reply-to: <87o83fdeqz.fsf@dustycloud.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.226.149.37; envelope-from=paul@denknerd.org; helo=mailtransmit04.runbox.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guile-user@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Guile related discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guile-user-bounces+guile-user=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "guile-user" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.lisp.guile.user:18061 Archived-At: Hey all, Just a rando on the internet, but wanted to chime in and express my support for the idea of low-hanging fruit fixes to make Guile more approachable. Since nobody else called it out yet, On 2022-02-09 at 10:18 -05, quoth Christine Lemmer-Webber : > [...] > ice-9 -> guile > -------------- > > I think that ice-9 is a weird namespace for "guile's standard > library" > but it's what we have for historical reasons. Still I would > have > preferred that namespace simply be "guile", so we have (guile > match) and > (guile format) instead of (ice-9 ...). It would be clearer what > ice-9 > *is* to have it be called "guile" instead. But maybe it's too > late for > that. How much work would it be to do an alias like this? > [...] I wanted to say that i found this extremely baffling, too. I initially assumed `ice-9` must be somebody's side-project to add "helpful features" to the Guile stdlib, and searched around a bit and (predictably) found a reference to a scifi novel i was unaware of. I dismissed that out of hand because surely "ice" in the context of Guile must stand for something else, but a few weeks later i decided to search this very mailing list archive, finding lo and behold, `ice-9` _is_ in fact the stdlib :). As a Guile newbie myself, i agree that it'd be immensely easier to grok what's going on if we're presented with module names such as Christine suggests. I didn't think to mention my confusion because.. well, i'm just the peanut gallery. But i won't miss the opportunity to say "i agree"! :) All the best to everyone reading, paul