Re: Naming help for a looping facility

[Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de>]

Hello Linus!

Not sure my idea for naming is any good: Perhaps you could use the word
"iteration" or "iter" in combination with something else.

I have a bit of difficulty understanding how these forms work. The readme could
perhaps be better, if you showed the output as well as describing it, which you
already do and show multiple examples per form, varying the arguments. For example:

~~~~
(define lst '((1 2) dud (3 4) (5 6)))
(loop ((:for a (in-list lst))
       (:when (pair? a))
       (:for b (in-list a))
       (:acc acc (summing b)))
  => acc)
~~~~

What happens, if one leaves the :when away? Is it strictly necessary, when we
already use in-list, telling the machine, that we are processing a list? What
changes, when we put :subloop in there? I am guessing, that it is the difference
between nested looping and not nested.

In the example with :subloop, you have shown the output.

If comparing to Racket's for-loop variants, I could imagine, that it could
improve understanding, if you put the Racket expression there and then show how
to do the same with the forms you are showing.

Would your implementation be portable between various Schemes? That would be
great! One problem I had when migrating my decision tree implementation from
Racket to GNU Guile was, that I had been using Racket's special for-loop forms
and that I had to translate those back into named let or others, to get it
running on GNU Guile. If one could simply load your library in any Scheme that
fulfills some known and specified set of conditions, one would not need to worry
about portability of the code as much.

Best wishes,
Zelphir


On 3/5/21 9:58 PM, Linus Björnstam wrote:
> Hello fellow guilers!
>
> I have been writing the bastard child of foof-loop/chibi loop (https://mumble.net/~campbell/darcs/hack-foof-loop/foof-loop.txt) and racket's for loops. The current pre-beta can be found here: https://git.sr.ht/~bjoli/goof-loop/
>
> I want to, just like the racket loops, provide simple forms, so that I instead of
>
> (loop ((:for a (up-from 0 10)) (:acc acc (listing (* a a)))) => acc)
>
> can write
>
> (NAME ((:for a (up-from 0 10))) (* a a)).
>
> My struggle is what I should name this. In racket it is for/list. I could of course call it loop/list, but that is inconsistent with the naming inherited from (chibi loop): listing. loop/listing becomes verbose (it's scheme after all) and is very clear what it does. But, as I already have a listing macro to be used within the loop facility, wouldn't (listing ((:for a (up-from 0 10)) ...) be a good name? Is it too magical?
>
> I happen to think that it is elegant, but I don't know. It doesn't feel like the scheme way. I am pretty sure I want a special form for these things, as it allows for some optimization work. listing, as we all understand, has to reverse it's arguments, whereas a special form easily can rewrite itself to be a non-tail-recursive loop (which is faster than a reverse, yet without all the nasty sides of reverse!)
>
> The options as of right now:
>
> (loop/list ...)
> Upsides:
>   - pretty short
>   - loop/list works differently from listing, even tthough the end result is the same. This signals that to some extent.
>   -  If I am stealing from racket anyway...
> Downsides:
>   - not as clear as (loop/listing ...). To be honest, this is a pretty big one. If I _could_ I would make (loop (... ( ...(listing ...))) ...) work like the simple form, but that is not possible if we have other accumulating clauses.
>
> (loop/listing ...)
> Upsides:
>   - The most clear
> Downsides:
>   - Verbose, which is what we want to avoid.
>
> (listing ...)
> Upsides:
>   - We export fewer identifiers
>   - Is already used as an accumulating clause
>   - shortest
> Downsides:
>   - Too much magic?
>   - One exported form does two related, but different things in different contexts?
>   - (anding ...) makes sense, whereas (loop (... (:acc a (anding ...))) ...) does almost not at all.
>
> I somewhat prefer the last one, but it feels icky. So, scheme sages of guile-user, what do you say?
>
> Liebe Grüße
>   Linus Björnstam
>
-- 
repositories: https://notabug.org/ZelphirKaltstahl